Butterthebean

So if she says they work...then they do? I'm asking if you understand what anecdotal evidence is? If I do "A" and "B" happens, then "A" didn't necessarily cause "B". My mom drank milk....then got cancer. 99.9% of cancer patients drank milk. This doesn't mean that milk caused cancer. There is already plenty of evidence that these kinds of things have no measurable effect. If she's selling them then I have a right to ask what evidence is there that they work other than she put them on and her saggy skin improved. It's well known that if you lose weight too fast your skin may not withdraw as fast and you will have lose looking skin. In some individuals, the skin will tighten on its own afterward. So my question is how does anyone know that the individuals who have used this product wouldn't have also had the same effect without it?

What Rootman is saying is how do you know the skin wouldn't be shrinking without the wraps? You can't possibly know. Your evidence is completely anecdotal. That's what he saying, and I agree.

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Here's a picture of the 2 muscles involved. For me I concentrated on massaging the masseter muscle with my fingertips.

I've had TMJ before and it hurts. I thought I had a wisdom tooth coming in. My dentist pulled it out. A week later the pain came back. I felt stupid because I am a massage therapist and it didn't even occur to me it could be TMJ. I started massaging the area and the pain went away within a couple of days.

Oh, no doubt Dreamsleever. If you are in maintenance, that is a completely different scenario. Especially if you are having no problem maintaining your weight. For those of us still trying to lose, I think starches can be very counter productive. Also, I think there is a huge difference between healthy carbs (low glycemic) and starches (high glycemic).

Great list. If I can add 2 things....exercise, I mean EXERCISE!!! And I think it's important to distinguish between carbs and starches. I think starches give carbs a bad name. I usually average around 60 carbs a day, but very very few starches. Low glycemic starches are actually quite healthy and help fuel your body though out the day. Early after surgery there may not be room for many carbs, but after time when eating gets easier, some healthy carbs are a good thing to eat.

What were you expecting? To wake up and be Vana White?

Way to go Chad. Keep walking and sipping. I set a timer to go off every 2 hours, and I got up and walked around our property. Afterward I would spend the next hour and a half sipping water. It's tedious but necessary. Head hunger? It's like ghosts from the past haunting you. They will go away soon enough as long as you don't invite them to stay.

Women dig skinny truck drivers.

If you are 2 years out, why do you drink Protein shakes?

The heat from this debate has definitely died down, but now it seems you are fanning the embers....maybe not intentionally, but still...

Dehydrated veggie chips are a good way to go. I get them from Kroger in the produce section or buy them online from nuts.com. Also, microwave some turkey pepperonis for about 1 minute. They come out like little pepperoni flavored chips. Lots of protein.

Pdxman, even if this advice does (or does not) pan out for Neil or many others, all it takes is for one person to stand up and say "I did this and I made it to goal, therefore it must be true." And there will be others only too happy to jump and cheer because that is exactly what they wanted to hear. (I feel awful typing that last part, but I believe for some it's true) Will we hear from the ones who try this approach and fail? We already do. Every few days there is a post by someone who is either stalled, or gaining weight, who is also not eating properly or did not follow their docs plan. I have seen several who have turned it around once they reapplied themselves and I salute those people. But what you almost never see are post op patients (one year or more) eating the proper Protein, low starches, sufficient Water and exercise....complaining that they have failed. Although I say all that humbly considering that people who post here may or may not be representative of ALL Vsg patients.

60% is the minimum average that sleeved patients lose. They give you that goal to set you up for success. If you beat the average you are ahead of the curve. If you lose 90% or 100% of your excess weight, you're way ahead of the curve. But imagine if every surgeon set the goal at 100% excess weight loss. All the people who lose 80% would be considered failures. That's bad for your self esteem but also bad for business (from the doctors standpoint).

That brought back memories of a great rant thread that sadly, has disappeared. And you are right about the malnutrition aspect . I'm in the middle of the book "Why We Get Fat" and it shows a lot of studies of different groups of people who suffer from malnutrition and obesity at the same time.