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Are you taking your Multivitamins too? sometimes insufficient trace minerals may play apart ( can't remember which ones though). I don't know when you had your surgery but some people report hair problems after having major surgery, anaesthetics. I don't remember ever having this problem so I can't really advice how long it may last- just know I have heard quite a few people reporting that it happens

Hey Bronnie you can improve the taste of the optifast a bit with additional favors. a couple of drops of orange or peppermint essence in the choc, coconut, banana in the vanilla. I also quite liked a bit of cinnamon or nutmeg in the vanilla- Doesn't add any extra calories and gave me a bit more variety

My food bill has defnately gone down even though I am buying more expensive cuts of meat etc- I buy less than before. i am not buying anywhere near as much in the way of pre processed foods and I think that is saving a lot. I am also doing my grocery shopping from a list now ( did not use to do this)- it has cut out impulse buying. I buy more fruit and veg than before but aminly what is in season and best buy that day. I think as much as anything this is making me shop more sensibly

Some Doctors seem to be very hot on the idea of not using a straw, simply because it may lead to swalllowing more air, something they want us to avoid in the early stages. Other Doctors don't seem to be too bothered- I used a straw and never ran into problems. I think its abit like the stories that certain foods are not band friendly- it may be true for one individual but the next person has not problems at all

Hope you had a good night out with the girls Jachut!

Hi bronnie I understand your concerns but knowledge is power! They really do need to make sure that if the ms has caused some weakness they can manage it. Are you privately insured?? the wonders of the private health system make it less likely that your surgery would be delayed- if it is, then I am sure it will not be a long delay. Its all worth it to make sure you are safe. Jsut keep plodding one foot in front of the other- you will get there

Katieo, I think this is a good thread- yes, i voiced some frustration but that doesn't mean that I took offence anything and I certainly hope I have not cause any. I really respect the bandsters around that have achieved such fantastic results- Yes Puddin- that means people like you!! you and other like you are the inspiration that shows what is possible- the specifics of how we achieve our goals are going to vary, thats human. There is a vast difference between safe, enthusiastic, vigorous excercise programs that peolple like puddin and jachut have commited to and built up over time-to the scarey kinda stuff that I am seeing someone who weighs over 450 pounds, doing on biggest loser

They are running series 2 the australian version of biggest loser and must admit that I am concerned when I see people who weigh over 300 pounds being pushed to the point of vominting, being hospitalised due to chest pain, having to drop out because of injury, requiring oxygen after a challenge-all this in the first week! Once of the trainers has repeatedly said she needed to break the contestants, that the only reason they should stop is if they are vomiting. Even if this is being done under medical supervision I can't help thinkning it is more about good ratings and sensational ratings than good habits- It is sending a really bad message to the morbidly overweight. One contestant only lost 4.4kg (about 9.7pounds) in the first week and she was in tears because she - and everyone else thought she had done badly. I can just imagine someone sitting out in tv land who is morbidly obese, thinking that this is the only way they hope to lose weight- If that is the sort of thing you are concerned about- we agree. It may work for some, but it could jsut as easily kill someone else

do we have GNC her in Oz? or is it mail order from the states??

HI guys you look great! Cam your timelline is a great illustration- you look like a diff person! thanks of the hint about the 3B, its good stuff

They often used to diagnose transverese myelitis or something else after the first attack, the diagnositic critera sued to say that you had to have had 2 seperate attacks over a certain period of time ( and a few other things) before they would say you officially had MS. At 27 yrs old that would have been so scarey- when my leg went it was the same sort of thing- slight numbness progressing to total loss of function, loss of bladder control etc in a few hours, it was scarey enough when I knew I had MS but for your first encounter- yikes! As for meds, it is a personal choice. I know it will not cure me but I will do what I can to limit the accumulation of more lesions- the more lesions you have the higher the chance of disability. I felt that as I was already wheelchair dependant I needed to be very proactive- hence I went down the path of immunotherapy. Made me feel a bit like i had the flu after shots for a couple of months but this stopped- now the only sde effect is red blotches at injections sites- that I can live with There are some thoughts about dietary changes that may be able to reduce the bodies infammatory reactions in ms - the schwank diet has been around for a long time. after my last relapse I went to the MS multi D clinic for a variety of specialist assessments and advice, once person I saw was a dietcian who spoke about dietary things- limit Red meat ( white meat & Fish are fine) better to have slightly lower Iron levels than normal as inc levels can lead to oxidation/inflammatory changes folate and b group Vitamins are protective Omega 3 oils are antiinflammatory in nature and therefore very beneficial Omega 6 oils, trans fats, saturated fats should be limited Vit A is not good in large amounts be carful of herbal remedies such as echinacia that aimed at boosting immunity- Ms is autoummune, your immunue system is already overactive in terms of attacking you It was certainly interesting stuff, most of it was what I was doing anyway with weight reduction stuff- except I hate oily fish As for the thoughts about where MS will pop up next, I do wonder that at times too- i guess its natural. I have lesions in both spinal cord and brain. I have not had a recent MRI ( hate that claustrophobc sensation- its like being in a coffin when you weight over 150 kgs)- my neuro doesn't bother with routine check mri's, he thinks they cause more anxiety than good. "Lesion load does not always correlate with disability" his words. The very nature of MS is that you can go for years and have little or no progression or you be unlucky and have rapid change. I met one woman who has had no increase in symptoms for 30 yrs, but I have a neighbour who is not even 45 and is totally dependant. I won't say I never get anxious about it but generally I try to just take it one day at a time and forget about the "what ifs"

I'm not into the the low carb thing, or atkins ( all that fat!), I cannot swallow solid stuff in the morning and have a prescribed low calories input of 600-800 calories, so I have been advised to use the protien shakes such as Optifast as my breakfast. I also asked the question perhaps for the benefit of people in the early stages post op where at least one a day of these shakes are suggested for most people- not everyone likes choc or vanilla particularly if they have had to do 2 to 4 weeks of optifast pre op. The US bandsters seem tohave a lot more variety eg fruit flavors rather than milkshake style. IF you can achieve your needs through balanced natural diet I certainly agree that is the best long term choice- lots cheaper too

Laurend I quite agree with you, but the prevous message had said that going below 1000 calories was definately an unhealthy obsession that can't last. I am not attacking the post, just pointng out that there are 2 sdes to everystory. These sorts of comments are not infrequent and are not very encouraging or helpful to those of us who must go down this path- its like we have been criticised pre op for bad choices that made us fat and now we are being criticised by others that we hoped would understand the challenges we face. I know that is probably not the intention. If someone were to drop there calories this low wthout expert supervision I would agree that its unwise. I would also be worried about someone who agonized/obssessed over an extra 40 calories in a day or ran 500m less than they aimed for- too me thats focusing on the -ve instead of the positives that we have achieved and for many it takes quite a bit of practice to focus on what has been achieved BTW I do not think I am obssesive simply because I journal and calorie count- I do not beat myself up if go over the 800, its away of making sure I meet the requirements that have been set for me. Journaling was able to help show me that my diet was low on B group Vitamins and magnesium, i would not have realised this without the journaling- when you kno better, you do better! Hopefully one day I can perhaps do occasional journals as spot checks, one day maybe stop them because it has become ingrained- for me it is self education, not obession

Hi Susannah I had been in a wheelchair for almost a decade by the time I was diagnosed, I am an amputee and have condition called complex regional pain syndrome. As a desperate measure to get severe pain under control I had a pump surgically emplanted that gives medication direction into the spinal Fluid to control pain ( like a continous epidural only even more effective). It did control my pain but the long term side effects of giving meds this way can cause wierd symptoms, some of which they are still learning about. So when I started having odd but intermittant muscle spasm in my hand and leg, occasional foucsing and depth perception problems, loss of sensation in varous areas it was easy to assume that it was the medications and the pump. Then about 4yrs ago I became really ill, I had a low grade fever and such severe fatigue that I could not even sit up, vision problems etc etc- I spent the best part of 6 months in hospital! At first they thought I had an infection around the pump or hidden infection elsewhere, that was excluded, then they thought I had lymphoma and various other tumors, then Q fever and various other exotic stuff includng malaria- all were excluded. They eventually said maybe lupus but like MS that is hard to get a specific diagnosis so they were not sure- eventually I improved but still didn't have an answer. Then I had started having bladder and bowel problems, again put down as being related to excess weight plus the pump. Finally I started having severe vertigo that would last for 2 to 3 days at a time. My GP sent me for a CT scan as I have a strong family history of brain tumor and other cancers- that was cleared but the report said there were some suggestions of demylinating process ( CT does not show this very well usually) so had an MRI that showed I had a large number of lesions ( in excess of 40). THey now say that it is likely that most of the symptoms were ms related and that I hve had it for a decade or more- the long period inhospital is now thought to have been viral and the low grade fever made all the MS symptoms like fatigue worse. So I was officially diagnosed august 2004 with RRMS, I'd been having swallowing problems for wellover a year at this stage and it had been assumed that I was just not being careful enough. Once I was diagonsed the MS was found to be the culprit. I started on copaxone immediately but after 4 months had a life threatening reaction ( anaphylatoid reaction, massive facial swelling, airway obstruction etc), started on betaferon after that. I had 2 true relapses in the past 12 months, one that affected the use of my right arm and my vision ( right arm basically normal but still struggle with my vision in hot weather, when ill or tired) then last september i lost nearly all movement and feeling in my remaining leg- that scared me, I can usually stand for long enough to transfer from chair too chair but could not then. THankfully I have most of the movement & strength back but still reduced sensation. None of my symptoms seem to go completely these days but I am told that even with RRMS that is not uncommon with a high number of lesions. I am pretty good most of the time and know that hot weather, heated pools, infection, getting overtired or run down will cause a pseudoflare. Over using my right hand will lead to severe spasms that medication does not help- I can type but cannot hold a pen to write a complete sentence. I was actually relieved when I was diagnosed, Having all these wierd symptoms that could not really be explained, just guessed at was always worrying- Once I was diagnosed and learnt a lot more about it, understood what is likely to make things worse, I can at least avoid things that trigger or worsen symptoms and hopefully the betaferon is slowing things down Latest research suggests that even when we do not have active symptoms the inflammatory damaging process is still occuring- so while they once used to recmommend that you waited until your symptoms started being an issue before starting immunotherapy, they now generally suggest that you start ASAP to avoid/reduce accumulation of lesions. my only frustrations have been how others sometimes percieve you when they know about the ms ( had particular problems with a supervisor at work whe she found out- got very nasty and very stressful), number 2 would be the tendancy for some Doctors to assume that every new symptom or illness you have is MS related- that really bugs me I'd love to know your stories, as for research, there is a fantastic journal from the UK that is completely free that I subscribe too- its from one of the major MS organisations overthere but I can't remeber the name at present- i will post it when I find it. The company that supply betaferon occasionally send out DVD's of medical conferences held here in Australia_one from last year was really interesting talked about a long term study ( over 16 yrs) of following people with MS on immunotherapy and possible future directions- Again, if you are interested I can find the details and PM you

Puddin, going below 1000 calories is not automatcally unhealthy as long as it is a nutrionist and bariatric specalist MO that has advsed it- As stated before, I have been dependant on an electric wheelchair for 12 yrs, i have a degenaritive neurological condition, so although I am very heavy, i have much lower muscle mass than average so I literally use less calories than most- those charts and formulas that talk about calculating basal metabolic rates are assuming that you are average in terms of muscle mass etc. I tried the 1500 cals per day- gained weight I tried the 1200 cals per day gained some weight I tried the 1000 cals per day I maintained weight Now I have been prescribed 600 to 800 ( average about 650-700) and I am losing weight finally and once I get to goal, they will help me re evaluate what I need for maintainance. There are lot of morbidly obese people who are wheelchair dependant due to disablities they had prior to becomng overweight- the average calorie intakes etc often do not apply to us, so what keeps you in a healthy range will gradually over time make us fat I hope to god that as I lose weight, i will be able to increase my physical activity, increase my muscle mass - in the meantime I will do waht Ihave to lose weight in as healthly a way as possible, at the moment that means what seems like a severe calorie restriction and close medical/nutrionist support to make sure that I am doing things right. I may be at one extreme example and then there are extreme examples in the other direction that excercise vigorously and have a much higher caorie intake and still lose weight- and lots a variation in the middle, as long as what we are doing is deemed to medically/nutrionally appropriatte for us as individuals, we are all heading in the same direction- We are all different. I would fail dismally if I tried to follow the same path that you are but it works very well for you it gets really tiring and very discouraging to read posts that criticise some of us because we journal, calorie count and have a low calorie intake- I trust the medical experts I am seeing and finally, I am losing weight Rant over!

I'd actually be surprised if you were not a bit nervous, even if this something you really want, are excited about and want, you have researched to the inth degree- there is still a degree of feeling of stepping into uncharted territory, not being in total control etc. I think fear and excitement are pretty closely related - two sides of the same coin Look at how you came to your decision about wls, be confident that you can trust your decision and look to the final goal

One of things I would have found useful is information about availablity of protein shakes. I know that we are usually told not to rely on them in the long term, which is great as there seems to be very limited choice here in terms of flavor and variety- it does not take long to get sick and tired of vanilla, chocolate and strawberry! We do not seem to have the same variety as our US collegues

Post op blues are really common after any major surgery, I think Kat's thoughts sound pretty good but as I have seen it in lots of different post op patients ( different surgery types) I think part of it is just a reaction to the surgery, the anesthetc etc. I think the bodies fight and flight hormones paly a part- In the face of major injury/physical stress, you adrenals secrete hormones such as cortisol and adrenaline as way to help your body cope with the insult of the injury/surgery- when those levels drop again you can feel washed out, flat and lethargic etc.

Sounds like you are in the midst of bandster hell- its really tough but jsut try and think how each really long tough day, is one day closer to your final goal! Its a great Idea to talk to your Dr, he may approve some changes- if you don't ask- you don't get! Good Luck- even if he doesn't approve the changes, this will not last forever!!

I used to drink a lot of fluids with meals pre band and worried that it would be a hard habit to break but it was not too hard at all- I drink up to the start of a meal and if really needed _ will have a few sips after a meal and that satisfies the need- good luck with surg

Headaches could be because you are really still fasting in terms of calorie intake and could be a sign of ketosis, ketones are produced when you are breaking down stored fat- headaches and bad breath are common, but will improve when you are able to eat more normally. If you are not getting enough fluids, headache can be a sign of dehydration too As for the discomfort and difficulty swallowing, it probably indicates you still have a reasonable amount of swelling in the area from surgery. Sip your fluids slowly, don't gulp-but if you are having trouble getting your fluids down, ring your Dr- might not be a bad idea to ring anyway for reassurance

Hi Jude I did mine at the tickerfactory ( www.TickerFactory.com) then cut an pasted it into my signature- I think there is a thread about how do do tickers but I can't remember where it was! Hi Bronie As for the MS cluster, I met Susannah yesterday (on the boards) and now its nice to meet Bronie as as well (I do the betaferon every second day too- my abdomen looks like a pink and red dalmation most of the time because of it!! I was diagnosed 2004, but they think I have it for at least a decade- it was great to eventually find out what had been causing problems> its always easier to deal with a problem when you know t understand it well.

HI Jude, Nice to meet you, I am from Adelaide south Australia GLad you found somewhere to get support- have found that it makes a lot of difference

We're all different and have to fnd what works for us, I do count calories and I do log what I eat as a self awareness tool to work with my band. I can do minimal physical activity ( I am dependant on an electric wheelchair due to MS and being an amputee) so to lose weight I need to keep my calorie count between 600 and 800 ( this is advised by my surgeon and Dietician)- the journaling makes it easier for me to keep track not just of calories, but other nutrients which on such as low calorie intake, is essential. If you can manage to lose weight without calorie counting, journaling etc. thats great and if you are trying to avoid becoming over obsessed with diet and excercise- I can understand why it worries you. Don't forget that one reason that a lot of people become overweight is because we don't know how to differentiate between head hunger, real hunger. We have made poor choices- not helped by deceptive food labeling and we need to re learn about a healthy diet that is sustainable for life. Eventually, perhaps the calorie counting and will not be needed. As for weighing, I could not weigh myself for over a year as I did not have access to a wheelchair capable scales, in that time I piled on 35kgs, I could not see that I was gaining weight. Now that I have spent a small fortune to get a scales that I can use, I know that I have lost 60 pounds (28kg) but if it were not for the scales I would be discouraged as when I look at my fortnightly progress photos, i can see very llittle if any difference. I need the objective measures of weight and measurements to help me readjust my slef image- again its a tool FInally, excercise- I can understand how someone may become "obssessive" re exercise after being very overweight. If movement and excercise has been painful, difficult or unpleasant and with weightloss it becomes easier, less painful and pleasant- a source of enjoyment and accomplishment- thats a strong positive reinforcement to keep doing the same thing! As someone who has been unable to walk for years if i ever got mobile again, I'd be like energizer bunny for quite some time. THere is a distinction between be keen and eager, enjoying something in a healthy way- and unhealthy obession. There is so much more to this than just the band, the band is one tool in the toolbox

If you don't feel comfortable disclosing the surgery you could tell them that you are on a medically supervised diet- It's the truth!