GeezerSue

Hi, Alex. Thanks for the anniversary reminder. It has been ten years since several of us at Spotlight Health whined and moaned that the boards were dominated by RnY people and Alex said, "Is that all you want? Your own board?" And, ten years later, Alex's board is thriving and Spotlight is long gone. Speaking of long gone... I was an early LapBand patient, 2002. The band had just been approved in the US, but my local doctor in Newport Beach, CA, had done a whole 30 or so. That's why I went to Roberto Rumbaut in Monterrey, Mexico. He had been part of the pre-FDA trials here and had placed well over a thousand bands at the time. My band worked well for about a year. I lost about 50-60 pounds. Then the problems began and I started bitching and moaning and barfing, and people kept telling me I had attitude or needed to learn how it worked, etc. I never knew if I was going to be able to eat or if it was all going to come back up. In restaurants, the FIRST thing I needed was a seat near the restroom AND if the restroom had only one stall, I had to find another restaurant. I have barfed in every restaurant parking lot in Southern California, I'm sure of it! I regained every pound, plus three...because that's what you do when all you can eat is Soup and ice cream....and half of THAT comes back up most of the time. I couldn't exercise if I had even drunk Water in the hour or so before my appointment with my trainer...because then I was barfing water. I finally decided, at the 2.5 year place, to revise to the DS. (Dr. Keshishian in Glendale, CA...but at that time, he was outside of Bakersfield...had done MANY band to DS revisions, so I felt safe.) Dr. Keshishian didn't have Huber needles so he told me to get the saline removed at a band doctor's. The fastest place for that for me was dr. verboonen in Tijuana. FORTUNATELY FOR ME, Verboonen was training a new x-ray guy, so we had a roomful of people. Verboonen was explaining to him how we would be able to see the barium go through very slowly and after the saline was removed, the barium would go through much faster. The four of us...my husband was there too...watched as the barium didn't go through at all. It went a bit of the way down and then nuthin'. It just sat there...a big ol' glump of radioactivity, paralyzed! lol Finally, I got to say, "SEE??? THAT'S what I've been telling everyone. My food gets stuck and just sits there. And then later, it comes up or goes down...but I can never predict which it will be." I was on one of those tables that moves to a complete upright position...Verboonen moved me up and I jumped a couple of times and finally, the barium moved. Even with the saline out, the barium didn't move very well. He took a deep breath and was preparing to explain to me what was happening and I said, "Esophageal dysmotility?" He said,"Thank God! You read a lot, don't you?" The band came out three weeks later, in November of 2005. As of my last doctor's visit, I was still down 125 pounds, seven and a half years later. (I'm not thin, never will be...but I can wear some mediums and some large sizes and I can MOVE. I don't need to make sure the restaurant has tables and not just booths. I know that if I'm out of town and my luggage is lost, I can find clothes anywhere. This is all good stuff.) The DS is not a worry-free procedure. If you are a passive personality, you should NEVER consider it. You must be VERY proactive, and NEVER settle for "my doctor says" unless you ALSO believe it. If you cannot challenge your doctor's decisions or demand explanations, do NOT get the DS. The esophageal dysmotility did not resolve right away. I think it was about eleven weeks, during which time I was convinced that the band had forever damaged my esophagus. But it is better now. Maybe 95%? I was lucky. So...the band works well for some people, but the last I read, over half the people who get one, have to have it removed. Although I have moved on from participating in wls boards, I did so for ten years. So I have "watched" hundreds...probably thousands...of people go through one wls procedure or another. My sister recently got the Gastric Sleeve. I would have kidnapped her if she had tried to go for the band...lol...but after watching me, there was no way she would have considered it. IMHO, the sleeve or the DS are the only way to go. Your opinion will probably vary. But you know, most of the people--not all, but most--who REALLY argued with me about my position on the band have since had their bands replaced or revised to other procedures. If you have one...good luck. But if you have one and it's giving you problems, do not let people talk you out of doing something that you feel you need to do to protect your health. GeezerSue

Lol...at 7.5 years and maintaining a 125 pound loss, I like to think it HAS worked out for me.

Hi, Lady... I'm going to make this simple enough for ME to understand it. But I'll find a link for people who need that kind of info. You know how the Gastric Sleeve just makes the stomach smaller and you lose weight because you just can't get any more food IN? Well, that's the "upper half" of the DS, aka the Duodenal Switch. The "lower half" involves, essentially, rerouting your guts such that food goes down one pathway and "digestive juices" go down the other and they don't meet up until about the last 100cm of intestines. So, on the top half, you just cannot hold as much food as you once did. On the lower half, not all of what does get in gets absorbed. Generally, only about 20% of fats and oils get absorbed. So I can eat steak and eggs and bacon and have LOTS of butter on my gluten free pancakes (many of us do better with gluten-free carbs post-op) and have a cholesterol of 130, but...unfortunately, I absorb ALL of the carbs I eat, so I CAN get fat from living off of sugar. And, there are nutrients in the foods I don't absorb...which means I'm not absorbing those nutrients from my food, so I have to stay on top of taking supplements. Religiously. And having blood work a couple of times a year, at least. Religiously. In spite of that, I feel quite fortunate to have learned about the DS...another name for it is Gastric Resection Duodenal Switch. There are only a few doctors who do this surgery. And many who don't, badmouth it. But it is the malabsorption that this surgery proveds that has allowed me to weigh what I do. (Malabsorption is the GOAL of the DS. It is NOT malnutrition. Malnutrition is what happens when you don't have needed blood work and don't take supplements. They are essential.) Here's a link: http://www.dsfacts.com/ If there is someone here who is having a terrible time with the band, I hope this might help them.

Actually, I became a member here almost eight years ago, so maybe YOU are stalking ME! (And all I did was post a link to the stories you told elsewhere.) the link

Be careful on this one, folks. She has been outed on OH using several names, being her own boyfriend, attacking those who are VERY helpful and deactivting and coming back insisting she is someone else, but making a few sloppy mistakes that inform us otherwise. Here's ONE of the threads....link Some of the OH old timers were less than welcoming as they remembered CheriGate...the "Princess of Poor Pitiful" who ended up incarcerated for hustling helpful folks out of cold hard cash. And where the hell is Donali!!! Sue

You also need to check into the sleeve--for just restriction--and the DS...for maximum results for resolving Diabetes. There are many normal weight people who have had part of the DS for JUST the diabtes resolution...so you really need to look at that, too. Try dsfacts.com

That may be a changeable position. Over the years, I have learned that getting the band removed is like breaking up a marriage or other relationship. At first, you kind of defend the guy because to call him names would cast doubt on YOUR decision to hook up with him in the first place. But, with a little distance and after meeting someone who DOES treat you right, you can finally say that the first guy was an asshole and you should never have put up with his BS for that long. For years now, I've watched "band survivors" go through those stages. They probably don't happen to EVERYONE, but be prepared that they could happen to you. Sue

Donali!! I kept getting the "come visit us again" emails and never did...until today...and there you are! I'm looking up exactly what you posted about for my sister, who--she must have been drunk at the time after watching ME suffer for three years--mentioned the LapBand. I've talked her down from that--her BMI is like 54 or something and she's old like me...it would merely be "the first step to her next surgery," as the band OFTEN (as we have learned) is--and I'm looking at those who have revised to the sleeve, as I think she'd do well with that. (She would not stay on top of the malabsorption issues and would be the first to say so. If she were here. Which I don't think she is. How's your life?!? You finished the patio, right? And that man came home? (Did we keep him or decide it was time to change HIM out, too?) I hope you are well. Sue

I've noticed that there are a lot of talented singers among the banded. (I have a five-note range in baritone, so I'm not included in the mix.) What kind of music do you singers sing? For the already banded, have the "...'til the fat lady sings" comments stopped yet? For the pending bands, can you hardly wait? Sue

Hi, all.. I've had several inquiries and got lazy about answering them, so I hope you don't mind my making a lengthy Sue-Post. (Okay, not lazy, loaded, Vicodin...just let me say that you NEVER want to hear the phrases "urethral stenosis" and "urethral dilation" coming out of your urologist's mouth.) For the innocent...My band surgery was October 15th, 2002, in Monterrey, Mexico, with Roberto Rumbaut Diaz, a band pioneer surgeon and a band patient and a really nice, down-to-earth guy. Prior to banding, I went from my all time high of a BMI 52+ to about a BMI of 48 on the day of surgery. For the first several months, I did okay. I recall that for my mom's 80th birthday, I finally hit a BMI of under 40...I was not morbidly obese! But shortly thereafter, I started dealing with reflux. I had to sleep sitting up. I took various drugs, but they merely lessened the problem. One day, I was having Breakfast with my cousin (an RN) and her husband (an MD) and was able to eat only about two tablespoons of oatmeal at 10:30 a.m. and realized that THEY were looking at someone with a bizarre eating program...maybe an eating disorder. I hopped on a train (I just happened to get to the station seven minutes before departure) and went to Tijuana and had Dr. Kuri unfill me. My reflux immediately resolved. And my weight loss began to resolve. So I eventually went in for mini-adjustments. I had unfills for my panniculectomy surgery and for my breast reduction surgery. In between, I had small re-fills. In two or so years, I had a dozen adjustments. But then I started to feel like my food was bouncing around in my esophagus. It would happen once in a while, and then more often. Not every time, and not just after I had eaten too much. Sometimes, I'd be having a cup of coffee before dinner and the coffee would bounce around. Other times, it would be Water. One day, I could eat a considerable amount of foods. The next day, one stupid bite of oven baked fish, and that was all I could eat. Well...after you do that for a while, you tend to get a little nuts. Especially when well-meaning people start telling you you just have to "work your tool." And when a doctor who doesn't have a band wants you to go to a support group meeting so that you can hear other successful banded people telling you they ALL go through that, with every meal. (Yeah, right.) I finally got to the point that most of what I was eating was Soup and ice cream. Because it would usually go down. I decided that, since I was within ten pounds of my pre-op weight, I wanted to consider the DS. I had an upper GI done. My esophagus is widened. In doctor talk, it's "esophageal dilatation." I went to Dr. Ara Keshshian in Delano, California and told him my story. He said, "Are you expecting me to look surprised? This is NOT the first time I've heard this story." He told me that I needed to have my band emptied...but that he didn't have the needles because he didn't DO bands. So I went to Tijuana and saw dr. verboonen, as he was available right away. He, his partner, the lab tech and my husband watched as I drank the barium and it just sat there in my esophagus. Didn't move. When stuff that isn't blocked just sits, the additional diagnosis is "esophageal dysmotility," in other words, the esophagus is NOT moving the food toward the stomach. (Ignore doctors who tell you that EVERYONE does this.) So, I'm scheduled for an endoscopy, to make sure that I'm not dealing with erosion as well. If that checks out, I'll be having the band removed and DS surgery within the next month or two. So...wisdom? I learned when checking with European surgeons that band removal is a booming business there. One surgeon said that 20% of his practice is revising bands to Rny or DS. (Remember, bands have been there longer, so more people have had more time to encounter problems.) That doesn't mean I think they are a bad thing. I just think that the band is good for whomever it's good for...but that certainly is not everyone. In fact, my insurance began covering the band after I self-paid, but is no longer covering it for people with BMI's in excess of 49...because they lose the same percentage of excess weight which leaves them still MO. And older people have more problems. I was 55. Esophageal dysmotility or "dysperistalsis" is more frequent in older people. Adding the band may just make the problem appear sooner and with more vigor. Not here, but at another site where it is mostly newer people, the band-enthusiasm is not tempered by experience or reason. Here, there are old timers who have been through problems. For many, the band is the answer. For many others, it is not. I am one of the latter. Thanks for your time, Sue

Especially, for newbies, lurkers, or other passers-by... IMHO there is no reason to use any of the referral services you find online. They act as liasons, for a hidden fee, and often slow down communication between you and your doctor. The established Mexican doctors have English-speaking personnel in the office and many of the doctors themselves speak English. I have heard patients compare prices, and it is my guess that a "representative" makes from $1000-2000 per patient, depending on services included. This is nonsense. And, yes, I speak enough Spanish to make a point in Spanish, but I'd feel the same if the country next door were speaking Danish. (And I know only one, really great cussword in Danish.) These paid promoters (most, but not all, are band patients) are unnecessary. Save your money and your sanity and call the doctors yourself. If they don't have a system in place which can serve your language needs, go elsewhere. The next guy will. Good Luck! Sue

Any debanded people looking into this? I just read about it and it appears that, for those who can tolerate it, it offers some promise in terms of making people just NOT HUNGRY. You can google "byetta + appetite" for details.

I'm not angry about my time being banded. I'm a little miffed at Allergan, because it lies and cons desperate fat women into making them rich. But I'm not mad enough to sell my stock! LOL

I didn't even click on the link. But funny you picked that one. I just met the OP in that thread at a DSer gathering in Santa Monica on Saturday! The band SURGERY is a safer SURGERY...and that accounts for, what, an hour or two of your life? What is NOT safer about the band is that each year, more previously successful banded people become unsuccessful as complications--which come later with the band than they do with other surgeries--develop. What is NOT safer about the band is that half of all the people who ARE banded are STILL Morbidly Obese and still dying from that disease. So the procedure? Sure...that hour of your life, you are definitely safer getting the band. But EFFECTIVE? Not so much and the rest of your life you pay for that hour of safety. What makes the band dangerous is that people who are dying from morbid obesity before getting banded are still dying from morbid obesity after banding...and yet, there cheerleaders keep cheering. I got rid of my band...but I sure didn't get rid of my STOCK in what is now Allergan. There's a sucker born every minute and the more people who believe their crap, the cushier MY retirement is. LOL Sue

I read your blog. What else do you have to do? And, since you are so capable of changing your life and overdoing on exercising...why the hell have ANY surgery? You live on YOUR side of 200 pounds and YOUR side of band experience and YOUR side of 30 years old...and somehow think you know more than I do. Maybe, someday, you'll know half as much. And I don't have charcoal panties...I have VS undies on right now. Maybe someday you''ll be there, too. Sue

So if I announce that I'm going to park on your lawn and flowers, then it's okay because I told you in advance I was going to be inappropriate? Nice to know if parking spaces are in short supply. The OH DS board is a place for DSers. There are--or were, I haven't looked lately--boards here for life after the band. So from what I've seen, it's still open to the likes of me. And...I still HAVE a band. In a baggie in my guest room. If your band erodes and you have to have it removed, do you want your membership here revoked? I'm here because the week Alex set up this site, he invited me (and others) to join and I did. He hasn't asked me to leave. I'm here because I was banded and have three years experience (which is apparently two more years experience than you have had) with the band and that experience makes my input at least as valuable as the input of those who have NOT had that experience. When I first tried to describe the symptoms of the complications the band was causing me, the local doctors had never had patients with those symptoms. FINALLY a doctor in Tijuana caught the malfunction on video. When someone says that they are having a problem no one here has had--because everyone here is, of course wildly successful and has lost all their excess weight with no complications--then it's a good thing when old-timers who have been through the wringer are there to help. I have been very busy lately and haven't been here to offer help. But I still get PMs/e-mails from people here and respond when I notice that I've received them. (Gee...I wonder why those people feel afraid of asking those questions on this board? Answer...they ask me because they don't feel strong enough to put up with the humiliation they get from their banded friends here.) Sue

My taste is as good as ever, too. That means your disapproval of me continues to be very reassuring. Just know that a a GOOD percentage of the posters here--your buddies--will be revising to another surgery. It's good of you to let them know how you will feel about them when that time comes. Sue

. THOSE are not the options. For many, many people, the options are being banded and remaining MO or having the DS and a normal BMI. . Not a healthy lifestyle change? Why is it that people who don't get how it all works proceed to tell us that is not healthy? Why is it that our doctors and our labs say we ARE healthy? What great secret do our detractors possess that hasn't been shared with the medical professionals who are dealing with us? Cantaloupe is not healthy for my sister because her tongue swells and she can't breathe. That doesn't mean *I* can't eat cantaloupe. Maybe steak and baked potato (with butter and sour cream, thank you) and veggies and a little candy (what I ate last night) makes you fat, but not me. Maybe it's unhealthy for YOU, but not for me or for other DSers. Lifestyle change like fitting in chairs and normal sized clothes and being able to buy a small RV with one tiny bed for my husband and me and we both fit in it? Lifestyle changes like the classes I just enrolled in because I can make the hike from the parking lot? Lifestyle changes like the clubs I just joined, knowing that I won't break the chairs? I should consider this unhealthy because I didn't diet and exercise and suffer to get there? I just can't hate me that much. If YOUR goal when having weight loss surgery was to have a procedure that would help you learn how to diet and how to call puking by cute names and how to change your original goals from losing weight to "NSV's," then the band was a very good choice. MY goal was to lose weight. I did. And I don't stink and some moron's saying I do is not only very insulting but demonstrative of the ignorance of some of the posters but it also has to potential to hurt some of your "friends" who are desperately seeking a way out of their nightmare. Way to go on support. Sue

So it's okay for me to post those inks to the farting, shitting, spitting-up banded people on the OH DS board because it's a DSer place? It's okay to ridicule them and laugh at them? Because I thought that PART of this tirade was about how inappropriate that behavior is when the band is the target. Did I misread that? I don't ridicule banded people and I haven't made them the target of derision...except right here, to illustrate that you are laughing at "your own." And because I know what it's like to hope that piece of silicone will perform as advertised...and I know what it's like to be in the 50% of people who lose less than 50% of their excess weight with that product. So do others. They are your "friends" here. They STILL write to me and to others who have revised away from the band to one of those procedures some here think it's just fine to ridicule. But some of y'all had better watch out. Go back and read the names and data again. See how many morbidly obese people who have posted to this thread are having fun laughing at non-morbidly obese people and spreading misinformation about someone who has had the courage to try to save her life. People whose obesity is still KILLING them somehow think it's cool to laugh at people who have found a solution that is different from the INEFFECTIVE solution that they have chosen. Talk about fiddling while Rome burns! I hope this adolescent behavior doesn't discourage someone here...someone who has the band and never got to a BMI of under 40...you know, one of your "friends"...from seeking a more effective cure for the obesity that is killing them. But if it does, we know where to give credit, don't we? Sue

I wasn't sure if I should start with what may have been legitimate inquiries or with the ignorance being passed back and forth as though it were fact or just the nasty stuff. I think I'll stick to that order. Inquiries This should be the easy part. Stuff that is malabsorbed is malabsorbed. Our bodies don't know we ate it. We don't get the benefit of the good stuff (the nutrients) or the bad stuff (the fat or calories) in foods we malabsorb. I'm not sure why people think that foods that our bodies don't know they were fed are somehow hurting us, but in answer to the cholesterol question--thank you for asking--I'll post my lab results, reference ranges in parentheses: Cholesterol =152 (0-199) Triglyceride = 98 (0-149) HDL Chol = 74 LDL Calc = 58 (0-99) LDL Direct = 74 (0-99) VLDL Calc = 20 (0-30) Homocysteine = 9 (5-15, <12 is preferred) HS CRP = 0.16 <1.0 = Low Risk 1.0 - 2.9 = Moderate Risk >3.0 = High risk My Cardiac Risk Assessment Level (the above score) could be SIX TIMES HIGHER than it is and I'd still be "Low Risk" for cardiac problems. And I'm 61 years old and I've started each day with bacon and a cheese omelet or ham and eggs almost every day for the past two years. My PCP, Endocrinologist and Cardiologist all want to trade lab results with me. In fairness, high cholesterol was never a problem for me. Before, during and after the band, it hovered around 190. Immediately post-op with the DS it was 119. Now it's just where it needs to be. ~~~~~~ Ignorance I have IRL friends who have had the band, RnY and DS (although almost all of the banded people are now unbanded.) Let's say we all walk into a Krispy Kreme store and we each order one glazed donut. A banded person, who has the same kind of band experience I did, will plug up and start producing huge gobs of viscous slime that needs to be spit out or barfed up. The RnY person will end up on the floor having a dumping episode. The DS person will enjoy the donut right then...and then need to take a purse-sized can of Ozium to the bathroom with them several hours later. Point is...NONE of the fat people need the lousy donut and each will pay a price. But if you think I enjoyed my barfing into parking lot bushes and my sprints across restaurants because of plugs (and not just from donuts, because I only ate one the whole time I was banded) MORE than I enjoy my stinky poo on the occasions I eat something I probably should not, you are sadly mistaken. I function in public. My dentist doesn't back off. My hairdresser--who bothers to mention ANY bodily aspect she doesn't approve of--would tell me. The esthetician at my dermatologist's office has been close enough to wax my brows and keeps inviting me back for other services. If she thought I'd stink up the pricey Newport Beach office she and the dermatologist share, she would NOT solicit my business. We function every day...all around you..and most people do not have any idea they were sitting next to a DS patient on a plane or standing next to one in an elevator. Are there "exceptions?" Yup. With any surgery? Yup. (See below) The comments about "rather be fat than deal with _____ " (fill in the blank) don't show a lot of maturity or wisdom. If your mother needs colon surgery to get rid of the colon cancer that might kill her, would you tell her not to because her poo might stink? Would you tell your mother not to have ANY surgery that would save her life but maybe produce some unwanted side effect when she makes some unwise decision? Morbid Obesity kills people just as dead as colon cancer. Several of the products people here have been laughing at were made for ostomy patients. DO remember to tell your loved ones NOT to have any life saving surgery that you "have heard" might be offensive to you. I almost forgot this part..."the massive supplementation." ROFLMAO. If you are a woman, you'd BETTER be considering supplements. Don't get pregnant if you can't subject yourself to taking a few vitamins! If you have a LapBand which IS working the way its marketers say it works (somebody must have one of those), then you probably are not getting in as much protein as you need. If you are an obese female living north of the equator (and probably using sunscreen), you likely have a Vitamin D deficiency (does your doctor test for Vit D 25 OH? Probably not. But because they are LOOKING for malabsorption, our doctors do.) So my "MASSIVE supplementation" consists of: Multivitamins (BA chewable, also recommended for banded patients) Calcium (BA chewable, I just double what every woman needs) Vitamin D (two teeny capsules a day) Vitamin C (why not?) Every other day, I throw in either a folic acid or a biotin (both sublingual), because I don't know if I'm getting much of that and it won't hurt anything. I don't "need" them...I'm just adding them "in case." My labs are done more often than the labs of most people here, I'd bet. And I KNOW what my results are. That is a better situation--in my opinion--than to position myself to laugh at others for behavior I THINK they have to engage in while simultaneously guessing that my labs ore okay. ~~~~~~~ The Ugly Part You want to laugh at people you think have eating disorders? Try this: CHEW AND SPIT Gas problems entertain you? You'll enjoy this: Anyone with this problem??? Gas increase w/pants on!!!! Do belching and crapping your britches stories tickle you? Enjoy these: Burps come from no where ............. and TMI I know, but this was too funny (and gross) not to share. Finally, when someone complains about others "dissing" their surgery choice and then posts comments to "dis" someone else's surgery choice, how can that person POSSIBLY think he or she is even a little bit better than the person or people they started out complaining about? That is not just ignorant...it's delusional. Sue Banded for three (mostly miserable) years, lowest BMI was 40-ish. DS for two delightful years, current BMI is 30-ish. (Too bad about the part where I live on steak and candy...I'm WORKING on doing without so much candy or moving more...but a BMI of 30 is ten points lower than a band ever got me, so I'm a happy camper.)

I guess I'll sell my Halliburton stock and buy some stock in wire hangers and handheld vaccum cleaners. Like it's going to stop just because it's illegal! LOL Gimme a break. (THAT would be like expecting all those gung-ho televangelists to stop having affairs and male hooker boyfriends and jack-off dates in hotel rooms... Not gonna happen.)

Most banded people--according to the data submitted to the FDA by the band's manufacturer--DO have sliming and barfing issues. The sites in cyberspace where everyone is happy with the band are the sites where those who are NOT happy with the band are "swarmed on" by well-meaning banded people who tell them they just have to give it one more try. The well-minded people don't know enough to understand that the band CAN cause physical problems and some of the people who are posting about them can keep trying only at risk to their health.

Just popping in to mention that MOST of the Christians described above by green seem to have neglected to notice that: ~Christ didn't have a regular job. ~Christ hung out with a bunch of same-sex "buddies." ~Christ didn't collect a dime to build any church building and made a mess in the local temple. ~Besides his mommy, Christ's only lady friend was a hooker. (Illicit lover or fag-hag? You decide.) ~Christ, in spite of the "render unto Caesar" comment, pretty much declared that Caesar was the "decider" (in Dubya-speak) on what exactly WAS Caesar's...that made him anti-government, which is why he got killed. So, how would an unemployed, wandering, anti-government, mamma's-boy, who lived with a first century version of the 12-dwarves and a hooker want me to live? Like I'd CARE? People who can't figure out the world on their own will need direction from that kind of "guiding star;" I'd rather explore on my own...thanks, anyway.

The more I follow the different surgeries, the more I feel that there are people who "learn" what they need to learn, and others for whom the lesson just does NOT compute. I have a friend who had the DS, lost a ton and then gained back about 20 pounds before she went off to WW. Before I had my revision, I asked her what she had learned abot herself that helped her keep her weight off. First she said, "Not a damned thing. This surgery hasn't taught me a damned thing." Then she changed her mind and said that it got her to a place where her excess weight was a managable number and she COULD run off to WW to lose 15 or 20 pounds, instead of going there having to lose 130. I have another DS friend who manages to eat the sandwich filling but only a little bit of the bread. She varies five pounds from her ideal weight. I know of a person who has been a band role model. But when the saline has to be removed for whatever reason, and restriction is gone, she has been known to pack on thirty pounds in no time. Then there's Michelle, who is on top of things. The same holds true for RnY people, so I imagine is applies to those who are without a working wls at any moment. What's the difference? What makes some of us "learners" and the rest of us candidates for the short bus? What do we have to do to be ABLE to learn from whatever wls we have had? Ideas anyone?