GeezerSue

From the other side of the street...yes, lots of "totally committed" people have had problems and/or complications and had the band "not work" for them in one way or another. Check out the http://lapbandtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78 and http://lapbandtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=79 Most, if not all, of these people were as committed as can be. If you really have spent a year "...seriously trying to get it off (limiting my food intake, exercising more, and drinking more water)..." then you might want to look into the other surgeries as well. BECAUSE, the band will help limit your food intake and the excerise and Water will still be your responsibility, but if doing those things have not worked for you without the band, I'm not sure why we would expect the band to change your results. It COULD improve on your limiting your intake...but only if you don't go for finding some other way to eat to your satisfaction. But since there is no malabsorption, that's about it. ON AVERAGE, the typical banded person who needs to lose 145 pounds will lose about 90 pounds. Some will lose all 145...some will lose nothing. A few may even lose MORE than 145 and a very few may even gain weight. Make your decision based on as much information as you can gather. Good luck. Sue

"...that people with H Pylori are never in pain. " Interesting comment. The bacterium h. pylori (aka helicobacter pylori) was discovered about 20 years ago by a couple of Aussie doctors who were NOT gastroenterologists. One of them--Marshall, I think, infected himself with the bacteria, got diagnosed with an ulcer, and then cured it with antibiotics to prove his point. I remember when he was on the talk show circuit...a funny little guy. I think they won a Nobel Prize in medicine...and they were NOT popular with the gastro-guys because they were "outsiders" who accidentally discovered the cure to the most prevalent problem in that field. (Smart-ass outsiders...) Anyway, h pylori and pain are FREQUENT companions. I don't know how many people scream in pain--but we all have different tolerance levels. I know that my brother-in-law (who wouldn't listen to his smart-ass sister-in-law) felt that HIS ulcer could not be cured with antibiotics and so he didn't try that approach...for another fifteen years. The man was awakened by the pain every night for fifteen years. H pylori and pain are OFTEN found together.

I have a question on the possibility of a later conversion to DS and/or the two-stage thing. The DS stomach is about 4-6 ounces. The RnY--and apparently the VG--stomach is only 1-2 ounces. The RnY is primarily restrictive with a malabsoption component. The DS is primarily malabsorptive with a restrictive component. The two-stage DS is the larger (4-6 ounce) restrictive part done before the malabsorptive part is done. Soooo...what happens when the patient has the teeny (1-2 ounce) VG stomach and needs to have the malabsorptive part added? I'm asking because it's hard to get in all the nutrients we need--considering that a large percentage of some of those nutrients pass right through the body without their calories or fat or nutrients counting--with a 4-6 ounce stomach. If, for example, I could eat only 1/4th to 1/6th of what I now eat, (I'd be crazy, but let's not go there right now), isn't malabsorption a dangerous thing to add to so limited a capacity for consumption?

As someone who HAD cervical cancer and a "modified radical hysterectomy" at age 30, I think anyone who DOESN'T insist their daughter have it--early--should be considered to be endangering that child. Things have improved in the past 30 years, but it was NOT a pleasant experience.

Yup...great surgeon and a real mensch. I didn't know he had moved his office. He USED TO pop out to the waiting room and eat band-friendly Snacks with patients' families between the surgeries...

We live at the beach (cheating!!) and we use the pool...a community pool. We started by just walking back and forth in the Water. Eventually we started swimming. Actually, water exercise is best for many people, especially the MO who might hurt their knees and such...I'm one of those. Do you have Y nearby with a pool?

Jeanette, That isn't a complication. Go back and read all the "stickies" about what to expect. Has your surgeon not provided information for you? http://lapbandtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17

To THIS semi-lactose intolerant old lady, 16 ounces of milk is my WEEK's supply of what goes in my coffee. (I don't use it in any other context right now.) So, "moderation" can be very subjective. (I would be SOOO sick on 16 ounces a DAY.)

First, what Alexandra said. Then, no matter how people try to justify their actions, for me, it boils down to this: people either honor the agreements they've made in life or they just want everybody else to honor their agreements. In life, I try to avoid those who don't care for honoring their side of agreements. Also, the people I most often see (on another board, in particular) willing to "nudge" the facts are those who consistently support politicians who want to give MORE latitude to insurance companies and fewer services to the insured. If people want fully funded health care, they should pay attention to who they're voting for. (We have friends, a doctor and family, in Denmark, who are AMAZED at our low taxes...and WE are amazed that we PAY for stuff they receive as subsidized government services. We can either PAY for medical care in cash or we can PAY higher taxes which will cover that care...nothing is free.) Further, lots of people with BMI's between 30 and 40 have had LapBand surgery in this country. They just paid for it themselves. And, kind of like Alex said, no one is keeping them from having life-saving surgery, because they are not (yet) in a life-threatened situation. They're just being kept from having their elective surgery for a problem that is NOT (yet) life-threatening paid for by a policy that doesn't cover "elective surgery for a problem that is NOT (yet) life-threatening." And I went to Mexico and paid cash for the band...before anyone asks. (The DS was done in CA and insurcance covered it.) Sooo.. in general - is it ok to "nudge" the system this way? No, it's insurance fraud and the people doing it are actually criminals. Is there anything wrong with doing it? Yes, it's insurance fraud and that's a crime. What's the line between what's "ok" to nudge, and what isn't? If your weight fluctuates right on the borderline even on days you're NOT being weighed by the doctor..by all means, skip the diuretic that morning. Or eat Fritos the night before. And if you gain eight pounds every month with PMS, by all means, schedule your appointment for when you're having PMS!! But once you start LYING about your height and putting weights in your clothes, you are commiting a crime and I, for one, wouldn't mind watching you pay for that.

I have heard that Blue Cross of CA won't cover LapBand for BMI's over 50. I'd ask Dr. C to chime in on the enlarged liver part.

I think they use papaya enzymes. I never wanted to go in that direction, as I felt that my esophagus and stomach were ALSO meat...and I didn't want them tenderized. Just "my weird."

I got the band, kept it three years and then had it removed and got the DS. I would not have been happy with the bypass...mostly for the same reasons the band was not a good "match" for me...although the "match" wasn't the only reason I had it out. I don't think there is anything inherently "wrong" with any of the surgeries...it's just a matter of what works best for each of us. I'd rather hear an argument about why a given surgery was RIGHT for someone than what they think is WRONG with the other surgeries...because what's right and what's wrong depends on the needs of the person doing the choosing!! (Age, how long MO, other co-morbidities, current BMI, psychological health, history of other eating disorders or compulsive behaviors, reasons leading to obesity, likelihood of complying with follow-up and other things should all be considered prior to choosing a surgery. And with all that to consider, OF COURSE there will be different "best" answers.) If I had had the DS three years ago, I'd have been through the weight loss part already and that would be better than starting at Square One all over again, like I've had to do.

I had one of those digital roller coasters, too. It was a cheap "Thinner." Now I have a cheap Homedics scale that never varies. http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?order_num=-1&SKU=13695610 (Don't forget your 20% off coupon.)

I get the inner debate. I was able to do that for almost two years before my revision surgery. In my case, I didn't want to be treating a problem that could be eliminated, and I figured old-dog-new-tricks wasn't my forte. We each have to do what we think is best for our health...physical and mental. Good luck.

Economic Left/Right: -4.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.00

Did those books get there, Penni?

I thought I just responded to this, but I'll try again. At the time of the original post, I was still recovering from surgery, so I guess I wasn't very vigilant. Hmmm. And I would have guessed Bob Jones University. Sue :::just Indian enough to have collected on a ratified but ignored treaty. And one other thing for any less visible racists out there...in case you, too, don't like Mexicans (almost all of whom have Indian blood unless they are simply Spanish immigrants to Mexico, which would make them...you know...SPANIARDS)...Rumbaut is not a native Mexican. He was born in Venezuela of Cuban parents and he went to junior high in Ohio. Then again...the name "Ohio" comes from an from an Iroquoian word meaning “great river.” Damned indians, they're just everywhere.:::

I got the band for all of the reasons mentioned above, but had it removed after three years. It was damaging my esophagus and it caused its own "eating disorder." Since I'm used to catching flack about giving bad news, I'll mention this as well. My insurance, Blue Cross of California, no longer covers the LapBand for people with BMI's of over 50. (Or maybe it's 50 and above, one or the other.) Their justification is that research shows that, with higher BMI patients, the AVERAGE weight loss with the band leaves the patient in an improved condition, but STILL Morbidly Obese. (Not with everyone, but with enough that they can deny the coverage based on the research involved.) That wouldn't seem to make sense given that, a few years out, band and RnY results are pretty similar. All I can figure is that--for the patients who are MO two years out--the banded people never got out of morbid obesity and the RnY people lost enough to no longer be MO and then regained. So, they "blame" the band for not causing a big enough weight loss, while they "blame" the RnY patient for the regain. Honesty with yourself is key. If you already know that you are a sweets junkie, who will for sure find a way to "eat around the band," then it probably is not a good choice for you. If, instead, you are someone who just overeats at three HUGE meals a day but doesn't snack and doesn't forage all evening (like I do) and is not particularly addicted to stuff that will melt and slide right through the band, then it might be just what you need. Good luck figuring it all out. And just because your appointment is Monday does not mean you have to decide by Monday.

I hate rushed decisions...don't you? If the band is causing multiple trips to the ER, I'd have it out. I had mine out for esophageal damage. I'm delighted. BUT, I had the band out and a revision to DS (duodenal switch) at the same time. And I imagine my insurance paid for the revision because I was MO all over again. A good reason you might not want to do what I did is that you are so young. My "possible future problems" is a threat about what might happen in the next 20-25 years. Yours would be worrying about the next 60+ years. Anyway, I have this strange notion that an insurance company will let you have a revision from one procedure to another if there are complications secondary to the first procedure. But, once the band is out and you are only 30 pounds overweight, I don't know how they would handle it. (I suspect that one would have to become MO again to qualiify for any other procedure.) Psychologists say that "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior." To me, the concept applies in other areas...such as my compulsive eating AND how well the band has worked for me. Doesn't mean I CANNOT change, just means I probably won't. Doesn't mean the band WOULD NOT finally just sit there and not cause problems, just means it probably wouldn't. I'm not flying solo, so I have nothing to offer on that topic. But moving onto another wls has given me a new life. Good luck to you. Sue

The only reason I had TWO weight loss surgeries is because almost none of that nonsense works and the few things that DO work are unsafe and work only for the short term. Snake Oil Salesmen...manipulating desperate people. They should be shot. I DO take supplements, but the supplements I take are Vitamins and Calcium. But they are the same supplements I've taken forever...just in differing quantities and configurations. And I've added Protein, but not every day.

1--Yes, the BM's stink more, but I don't recall having rave reviews about my pre-op BM's, either LOL. The first two DS people I met in 3D are married (as am I) and have husbands who chase them around (as do I), so it can't be all THAT bad. One woman is the "professional wife" of a very successful businessman and they host A LOT of business-related events. She is still a very popular hostess and is also involved in DS-related events that many people attend. The other has a business of her own and spends a lot of time in the presence of others in a situation that depends on referrals. She gets those referrals. HOWEVER, to prevent smelly stools, we limit carbs. And, there is a product called Devrom, which is used by ostomy patients, to "deodorize" their stools. I have it here but haven't used it yet. The problem for me is that I have very limited olfactory ability...generally speaking I LITERALLY "can't smell shit." So I worry about stinky poop all the time. 2--Sharing a bathroom might be a problem, at least at first. But mostly because immediately post-op, there are a lot of BM's and less warning time than usual. (You get used to that, AND the warning time increases over time.) But our immediate post-op mantra is "never trust a fart." One time, my sister went right into the bathroom after I had used it and came back out to report that the body I had hidden in there was now ripe. But she has used it since then and I always ask and she says there have been no repeat incidents. I worry about it all the time...but I can't smell it. So I use a lot of stuff...at home I have absorbent deodorant crystals and an oil reed diffuser thingy and I use fragrance-free Oust each time and, because there is no window, there is a bathroom exhaust fan. When we remodel the bathroom ...at the end of the month...ARG...we will upgrade the fan, but mostly because the old one is so noisy and I use it all the time, "just in case." I have a small can of Ozium in my purse when we go out AND a small container of disposable baby wipes. I think I've used the Ozium three or four times, just in case...and the baby wipes a couple of times, just to feel clean. 3--My dietary restrisctions are: a) no booze first year post-op...not because of the surgery itself, but because my surgeon feels that the very rapid weight loss puts enough strain on the liver and alcohol adds to that burden. Some doctors say to drink "in moderation." One DS girlfriend laughs and asks why her doctor would think that, at 334 pounds, she had any concept of "moderation." (She's the one who stopped at In'n'Out Burgers on the way home from surgery!!) :cool: excess carbs will likely cause smelly poop. Banded, even one or two bites of sourdough bread at my favorite restaurant would send me to the restroom hurling. Now I can easily enjoy that bite or two. But if I want to eat two big slabs of the stuff, I have to ask myself if I'm willing to pay the price of having two or three extra BM's the next morning. It's a judgement call. But it's my decision. c) Other than those warnings, NOTHING IS FORBIDDEN. I can drink beverages before, during and after meals. 4--I do not feel "full to capacity" like with the band. I feel "full to capacity" and satisfied...like Thanksgiving before any wls. I just get full on less food. LOL. This was a question I kept asking while deciding. But since I didn't know any band-to-DS-revision people, nobody really understood the question or had anything to compare it to. It feels like you never had any surgery at all. You just have way more food to go in the doggy-bag. 5--WHAT KIND OF chicken AND BREAD? If it's white meat chicken, it's likely too dry. Banded, I had to change to thighs and drumsticks--dark meat only. And, the only bread I could eat without getting plugged up was the crispy crust of the sourdough served at my local favorite restaurant and that had to be slathered with butter...which kind of defeated the purpose of the band. But what I'm saying is that those foods may be on your permanent no-no list if they make you uncomfortable. 6--You already have the band, give it your best. A lot of people do very well with the band. With what you've been through already, you just have to really, honestly give it your best effort. But if you develop any complications or if you cannot comply with the program, there are other options.

Your disability status will hinge on whether you are physically recovered from surgery enough to return to work. It may be time to find a different work environment. Whether you're one week post-op or fifteen, that environment is not going to help you with your journey.

Amy, From your photos, it would appear that you have the level of "overhang," (for lack of a better term) that is usually covered by insurance. Have you confirmed that it's something you actually have to pay for? (Given choices, I'd be tempted to save the cash for the post-weight-loss-tweaking which would be a purely cosmetic procedure which insurance would not generally cover.) Just a thought... http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/6698/pann.html

Amy, I didn't read all the responses, but I'm answering with what I know. I had a panniculectomy (with rectus muscle repair...so it was essentially an abdominoplasty or "tummy tuck.") I had it done while MO. And I have (as usual) good news/bad news to report. BTW, Dr. Fobi of the Fobi pouch did my friend's RnY and he often does a panniculectomy at the time of the RnY...which means that all of those patients are MO. First, the bad news. I had it done at a teaching hospital. AFTER the surgery, when I was readmitted for a resistant infection, is when I heard the supervising surgeon explain to the baby surgeons that the complication rate for an abdominoplasty on a morbidly obese patient is 100%. He said that with the MO patient, there can be little complications or big complications, but there are going to be complications. That said, my complication was resolved with very aggressive antibiotic therapy. The good news: I'd do it again in a heartbeat. The other good news: I've already had a small revision done and as I lose more with the DS, I can see that it will need to be tweaked in the future. No biggie. The BIG surgery is over. AND, if you read the small print in MY insurance policy it says that it covers reconstructive surgery when a malformation is caused by accident or disease or surgery. Well, a panniculectomy on an MO person is, first of all, NOT a cosmetic procedure. It is purely to repair function. So, when I submitted to insurance, my PS and I made sure we emphasized that we were repairing the "oops's" caused by the NON-COSMETIC procedure of panniculectomy. They paid. I hope all goes well for you and I really am glad I had it done back when. If I had waited to "get to goal" I'd STILL be waiting. Instead, it's been gone for a couple of years.

I had a family member who was the director of UNESCO for Latin America and the Caribbean. I checked out my hospital. REALLY checked out my hospital. (I'm not familiar with South Coast Medical.)