GeezerSue

I am SO glad to see the support that those who are having problems with the band are receiving. It hasn't always been that way. When I finally decided that the band had to go, I received--on another site--a ton of advice on how to make it work, or lectures on giving it another try or hate mail telling me that I was there to bring everybody down. (What I was TRYING to do was explain that for many people the Band Reality at three years is a whole different ball game than the Band Reality at six months.) What started out as my magic tool became a choke chain that was hurting me. I started to hate it and want it out. (The only other time I felt that way was when I discovered that Ihad cancer and I just wanted those parts OUT. Now!!) (Not saying the band is like cancer, just saying the the urge to get it out when it became problematic was similar.) NOW what I get--from some of those same people--are LOTS of e-mails, mostly asking me to keep it quiet and telling me that they are ready to move on and have made appointments for consultations regarding revisions. Even some of LapBanding's biggest success stories--people featured in commercials and on websites for YEARS--are talking gastric sleeve because the reflux issue has become too much to deal with. I feel very bad for anyone who had so much hope and was so disappointed. (And I feel even WORSE for the self-pays...because I was one!) No surgery is perfect. If the prize was not behind Door Number One, that is no reason to give up and go away. There are other doors. Do not give up. (And, no...I do NOT get paid a recruiting bonus for drumming up DS patients, but so far, it is serving me well and I'm down about 90 pounds in about 9 months. I SHOULD be able to say that I have "learned" something and that I'm working my ass off. I haven't and I'm not. Not ONE of those pounds was because I made an effort. It has ALL been the surgery...I just sit here and eat crap and don't exercise. Which is probably why my weight loss this month is either one pound or zero, depending on time of day. The free ride may be over...it may be time for me to take SOME responsibility...but I was kind of burned out after the band experience.) Anyway...do whatever you need to win the WAR...the battles are irrelevant. Sue

In the olden times, before the "high fructose corn syrup conspiracy," that's how Coke tasted! I've never liked the "new" coke! Well...maybe with a little rum...LOL Sue

I'm concerned about this statement. It sounds as though someone has told you that band-related GERD can be prevented by avoiding "too tight" fills. That just isn't so. (Unless there is some recently published study I need to read.) MY band was NEVER tight and I got GERD anyway. My surgeons would not have given me a tight fill if I had asked for one...which I didn't. I never had a fill that kept me from eating. My GERD continued whether I had 0.4 cc's of saline, or 0.8 cc's of saline or none. (I never, in three years, had more than 1.5 cc's.) This article explains that the band can mess up the esophageal functioning which in turn can cause GERD: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=16027327 I'm concerned because when I read your post, I get the message that if we are all careful and conservative (which is the responsibility of the surgeon btw) everything will be just fine...which also might lead a reader to think that anyone who has the problem got it from not being cautious and conservative. Real life--including life after banding--just isn't that simple.

Actually it will do just fine...but the one I read was several years ago. And, BTW, I'm an atheist veteran!!! My dogtags say "declines to state" where religion goes, because I didn't want to fight about it. My recruiter told me about a guy he served with who researched religions to find the ones with the most holidays and then decided he was Druid. However, I can still recite most of the altar boy responses to the Catholic Mass--IN LATIN--if that earns me any points. LOL MEA MAXIMA CULPA.

At the risk of throwing matches on this can of gas, the surgeons who tell patients that they will lose only 50% of their excess weight are NOT "against" the band. They are merely reporting the facts. (AND they should mention that while no one is limited by the statistics eveyone figures into them.) While I think that it is commendable that we go into ANY wls with a positive attitude, I don't think I've ever encountered ANYONE who says, "Well, my goal is to be among that majority group who lose about half their excess weight." Everyone thinks that THEY will do better. Truth is, over 25% of 5'3" banded people who start at 300 pounds will never get below 225 and they will still be MO...after all the work, all the hoping, all the planning and money, over 25% will still be MO. People need to know that going in the door. Doctors who encourage this kind of magical thinking are not being honest and should be avoided.

Actually, I read a while back that the "no atheist in a foxhole" thing is far from the truth. (I wish I could remember the source.) It seems that a number of people have died while their voices were being recorded...plane crashes, police/fire radios, that kind of thing. Turned out that the religious folks were saying "Oh, God" and the non-religious folks were saying stuff like, "Oh, shit!" Whatever it was I read said that most of us die pretty much the way we live. I do want to mention that an intense multi-page thread where the atheists come out of hiding and DON'T get reminded, by some self-appointed messenger of doom, that they're going to burn in a hot place that no one has ever seen and the atheists don't believe in is kind of a nice change. Growth is a good thing.

Inamed used to have a list. But being on that list did NOT mean they are experienced... I don't know anything about a "certification." I just know that Inamed used to list doctors who had taken the training seminar or whatever even before they had performed their first surgery.

Mine never went off...and I thought it would, so I told security and was searched with a wand on several trips...but it never went off.

I'm so against using those cards...so imagine how surprised I was when I GOT a discount (at Souplantation) because the cashier noticed that my card (which I kept right next to my driver's license in case of emergency) had a diagram of a stomach on it. But I SELDOM go to places like Souplantation or buffets. They sell QUANTITY. That kind of picking and choosing helped me become obese. I now demand QUALITY. There were only a few things I could eat at Souplantation when I was banded, and I essentialy stick to the same stuff now that I'm DS'ed. So, I can go here: http://souplantation.com/locations/restaurant.asp?store_id=98&store_name=Irvine and pay $9.00 (or $4.50) with a wls card and TRY to find stuff to eat that is satisfying...and go right home and look for some Protein I can eat... or I can go here: http://www.mrstox.com/menus/menus_entrees.html and pay $35 or so, but have absolutely delicious meals, served on linen table cloths, with a piano playing softly and VERY attentive service and have leftovers that last for two more meals and be satisfied. I realy think that those "feeding trough" places play into our weaknesses.

There are more than two wls's. Right now, you're on a band board, asking if you should get the band. If you go to an RnY board and ask if you should get the RnY or a DS board and ask if you should get the DS...the answers will all be pretty much the same!! No surgery is "the best." Each has its plusses and minuses. You have to see where you fit in best. Allow me to complicate your decision-making process by adding Door Number Three: http://obesityhelp.com/forums/DS/about.html http://www.duodenalswitch.com Good luck, Sue

Here's what I DO know: You don't want advanced esophageal dysmotility. If your surgeon decides the degree of dysmotility you DO have is enough that he thinks the band is a bad idea...listen to him. If the condition is advanced enough that getting the band will make it worse, the band won't help you lose weight anyway. That's because the only things you WILL be able to eat are things that will slide right through the band...and make you GAIN weight. So, trust your surgeon...if he says it's worthwhile to give it a try...GO FOR IT. If he says it's too risky for you, work on Plan B!! Good luck!!

Shackdog, it COULD be "willpower," but it just as easily could be a dopamine irregularity. A Parkinson's drug turned otherwise non-compulsive, non-gambling people into compulsive gamblers. It is also involved in all of the excess behaviors. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/parkinsons-disease/BN00043 I'm betting that we will learn that dopamine plays a FAR bigger role in any compulsive behavior than we imagine...which also explains why compulsive eaters become compulsive drinkers, or compulsive shoppers or compulsive sex-mongers (seemed like the right word for male or female) or compulsive anything-ers. Also due to the fact that a good number of MO people are very much in contro in many other areas of their ives...I think that it's something FAR bigger than willpower.

Generally speaking, things that melt at room (or body) temperature will go down faster/easier than things that don't. So, cheesecake will take a little longer than, say, ice cream. Really, though, the band is not very helpful with these things. It was meant to help with the second turkey drumstick, the third slice of meatloaf and the fourth piece of chicken. If you do not have a way to address this particular facet of your eating you COULD be in for a challenge. The band works BEST at making you unable to eat large quantities of solid food. If you "switch" to lobster bisque and Peanut Butter cup ice cream...you may not see the kind of progress you are hoping for. The band COULD BE just what you are looking for...OR you COULD BE someone who will feel a need to "eat around the band." Talk to yourself...listen to your answers..and good luck!

Oh, Jack...you are too kind. My "price" is that I DO have to make time for those three or four bathroom trips every morning and that I worry a lot about the LONG-TERM effects of malabsorption. (Also, I carry the very small can of Ozium and some flushable wipes in my purse, "just in case." I almost never use them, but they make me feel "safe.") I'm sure people treat me differently, but I can't claim that any difference is based on their shallow reactions to my outward changes...I think that my physical presentation of myself to the other residents of the planet has changed. On another thread, I posted: HOWEVER...the other night, my husband and I were walking to the elevator in our building to go somewhere and he disappeared. I stopped and looked over my shoulder and saw him behind me...down the hall...and asked, "What's wrong?" "Nothing," he said. "Aren't we going down to the garage?" "Yup." "Then what are you doing back there?" "Watching." "What?" "I'm watching you walk. It's VERY nice to watch." Deal is, I walk differently in high heels that I do in Birkenstocks! I haven't been around any really old friends, but that will be coming up soon. I'll let you know what happens. I'm currently about 50 pounds over what the BMI charts say I should weigh, at the high end of my height group. But THAT number is about five pounds less than I weighed at the end of Basic Training when I was 26...back when...well, back when Ford had just taken over from Nixon. (Are we old, or what?) I have NO plans to end up there!! I applaud your 35-to-go status, and I think I'm in generally the same neighborhood. I use the Obesity Help estimator: http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/information/post+op+planner.php If I put in my starting weight and a presumed 75% ewl, I am following that prediction table pretty closely. IF IT IS ACCURATE, I should be hitting "overweight" around Halloween, and then I may lose another ten pounds or so...IF it is accurate and IF I progress as predicted. (My best friend always says, "If we had ham, we could have ham and eggs..if we had eggs.") But the honest answer to the "price" question is that the only things I have to deal with (so far?) are the several morning BM's (if I were working, I'd have to get up earlier to allow for that routine), the worry about how bad that might smell (I have impaired olfactory ability), and MOSTLY worry about whether my doctors are on top of my labs the way I want them to be. (Caveat: I am happy with the DS for ME...but I'm almost 60 and I might have chosen a different route if I were younger. At the same time, as I watch my mother's declining health at age 83, I see that dealing with any band-related problems at that age could be a challenge, too. Any surgery is more dangerous at that age...even something as simple as repairing a slip and even more so with having to remove an eroded band. That factored in to my desire to have a "alteration" as opposed to an "appliance.")

I think that 65% is a rather generous figure and the average is actually a little lower. But it IS only an average. No one knows in advance whether you will be someone who loses MORE than average, LESS than average or the average amount. When I heard those numbers, I was sure that I'd lose MORE than average. I actually lost around 40% of excess weight prior to developing complications. (The band was filled and unfilled over the next year or so and then removed, three years after it was originally placed. By the time I had revision surgery, I actually weighed about three pounds MORE than I did before I got the band. I had the Duodenal Switch surgery and have lost around 70% of my excess weight in eight months. I'm still a newbie with that surgery and do not know what the future will hold, but the long term results tend to be a higher average weight loss than band or RnY...not without a price, but right now, I'm doing fine.) While my approach is very different than Jack's--I've had the bowel rearranged via invasive surgery, and I'm "suffering"...lol... the heartbreak of a BMI of +/-33 when it WAS, at one point, 52--he brings up a very good point. (As he is wont to do.) Using hypothetical numbers closer to mine, I suspect, than yours...if someone who "should" (whole different argument there) weigh 150, weighs 300 and loses 65% of her excess weight, she will weigh, 202.5. Is that good enough for you? (Hypothetical You.) That kind of progress is, depending on your perspective, GREAT because you are now only 52.5 pounds overweight instead of 150...or, TERRIBLE because you spent $12000 and had surgery on are still 52.5 pounds overweight. And that's just a case where everyone's mileage will vary. No one should be telling you that YOU cannot lose more than that amount...but they should be telling you that ON AVERAGE, band patients lose about 65% of their excess weight...and that means that for every person who is 100 pounds overweight and loses 85 pounds, there is someone else who loses only 45 pounds. ~~Standing with back to the wall and awaiting the onslaught~~ I think that anyone who cannot deal with the (very good) possibility of losing only 55-65% of their excess weight should shy away from surgeries that have that track record. I am one who cannot accept that long-term result and this is one reason I did not have a revision to RnY. Some people CAN accept that outcome and good for them because they are probably very reasonable people. But those numbers just don't cut it for me. Good luck figuring out which choices will be your best. Sue

Shawn, it's not just band patients who lose slowly! My first couple of post-op months with the DS, I had the standard predictable massive weight loss...like 54 pounds, going out the gate. But by the third month, it was FOUR pounds. In fact, since then, MOST months, I have lost only four pounds. (I am the EPITOME of the non-compliant patient...but my surgeon warned me that that's what often happens with revision patients. They've already "been there, done that" and it didn't work...so they are not exactly putting their all into effort #2. I eat foods that are not likely to help me lose weight, including TONS of chocolates...and, since I hurt my back and had to go on steroids, I've given up anything that resembles exercise.) HOWEVER...the other night, my husband and I were walking to the elevator in our building to go somewhere and he disappeared. I stopped and looked over my shoulder and saw him behind me...down the hall...and asked, "What's wrong?" "Nothing," he said. "Aren't we going down to the garage?" "Yup." "Then what are you doing back there?" "Watching." "What?" "I'm watching you walk. It's VERY nice to watch." He is, BTW, a keeper. So, four pounds is only four pounds, but cumulatively it seems to be noticeable!!!

First, the mentioning the 50% isn't downplaying the amount that people lose. He just may not be stating it very succinctly. It is the AVERAGE. Of course people will lose more than 50% and less than 50%...that's how an average is calculated. To GET TO that 50%, for every person who loses 90% of their excess weight, there is someone somewhere who has lost only 10%...that's just how the math works. Then, having had two wls's to date, I can pretty strongly state that there is no BEST surgery. Whatever surgery you think will work best for you AT THIS POINT IN TIME IN YOUR LIFE is "the best surgery" for YOU, right now. But that doesn't make the other surgeries "bad." And it doesn't mean that you won't change your mind later. Several people here have done so. I've even heard from some band patient "pioneers" who are considering moving on in the not too distant future. (That's including Karla, of course.) Risks? I've had the riskiest surgery, the Duodenal Switch, as my second surgery. The band was my first surgery and it was pretty safe...but the end result was a damaged esophagus (now repaired) and I was STILL MO, so the my risk of death from MO was still there...and still killing me. I've now had the risky surgery, but I'm no longer MO...so there's risk and there's risk. I am down a little over 90 pounds from (my second) surgery date (and 110 pounds from my highest pre-op weight) and now I have to be vigilant about the problems that might arise due to malabsorption. But, I'm no longer MO. Look, insurance companies will use any reasonable excuse to not pay for something. If the RnY and DS were as dangerous as some people like to think they are, no insurance company would cover them...ever. Yes, more patients survive band surgery than survive the other surgeries...but bands are placed on lighter weight patients, and they have a lesser risk going in the door. (Again...before someone says, "Well, I have the band and my BMI is 4,375," I'm talking about ON AVERAGE. The more extreme solutions are generally applied to the more extreme cases.) EACH surgery has its pros and cons. Surgeons have more post-op interaction and repeat visits from band patients than they do from the other wls patients. So the surgeon may be thinking that six months ago, he did ten RnY's and ten band placements, and one or two of the RnY people had ER visits that were resolved fairly rapidly, but every single one of the band patients has been back for at least two adjustments, etc...and to him, that may SEEM like less successful surgery. The other surgeries don't have to be "bad surgeries" for your surgery choice to be right for you. BTW, this isn't addressed to anyone in particular...

There are a few issues involved. Many of us flew home uneventfully just a few days post op. (It wasn't pleasant by any means, but there were no emergencies involved.) As far as eating is concerned, you will probably be at the stage where you are screaming that you don't have any restriction and you think the surgery was a complete failure. (That's the averge 5-7 week deal.) So you'll probably be able to eat most anything you ate pre-op. However, are you flying? A lot of people have real problems flying. Sometimes, restriction kicks in and they can't eat or drink anything...so just go somewhere where they have heard of the band. Good luck.

The band often cures reflux in those who have it prior to banding...and often causes reflux in those who have never had it.

Yeah...stay away form the memorials. You can read about complications on OH or on Yahoo groups and, of course, here. I think that knowing about what could happen makes us better consumers of this service and makes us better prepared if any problems arise...and makes us aware of what is part of the normal healing process vs. a real problem. The band is the right choice for a lot of people. It also is the wrong choice for a lot of people. Be honest with yourself. Do you just eat large quantities three times per day or do you forage all evening? Did you get fat on (mostly) too many pork chops at dinner or (mostly) too many Peanut Butter Cups and drive-thru Snacks? Do you have to lose 150 pounds or is it more like 70? Are you ready to follow the new rules or will you find a way around them? The honest answers will guide you to your best choice. Good luck... Sue

Bettina, I had esophageal dysmotility secondary to the adjustable gastric band. That is, the band was hindering my esophagus' ability to do its job and it took two-and-a-half months after the band was removed to get relief from those problems. Turns out that people who are most at risk for esophageal dysmotility are older people (I was 55 when banded), the morbidly obese (duh), and those who have bands (adjustable or otherwise) implanted. If someone has the problem pre-banding, they are not a good candidate for banding, but my problem was purely band-related.

Not sure who "you lot" includes...how many of us are supposed to be insulted? BACK ON TOPIC, I felt bad that I had spend $10,000+ of our money on something that was damaging my insides...but I did not feel like I had "failed" anything. Also, I didn't feel "hysterically happy" OR that I had "hit bottom" before having the band placed. I was tired, I was exhausted, I was somewhat depressed that everything was harder to do than it should have been...but no barrel bottoms (or points of elation) in my viewfinder. I understand better now...if you were not MO and did not have comordibity issues and still felt you had hit an all time low about your weight situation, I can see how you might think others felt that way, too. I cannot speak for others, but MY experience was that "impending relief" from some physical problems was about to occur. (But my surgeon says that revisions OFTEN come in the door with issues about having failed. Not me. All those years of Catholic schools and the guilt thing is just not as strong as it should have been. LOL! )

Leona, That would mean--with the doctors I've deal with--that their fees are included. But the hospital fees are not. I hope yours is all inclusive. BTW, even with my Mexican surgeon, the "free lifetime adjustments" did involve a fluorscopy fee.

You guys are making me doubt my sanity...so I went to the files. On 8/10/04, I had a required preliminary appointment with the doctor at Cedars. Insurance was billed $340, actually paid $108.18 and I paid $27.04. On 8/24/04, I was billed $621.04 for "Health Services." Insurance paid $224.58, I paid $148.06. AND...I was billed $446.00 for "Surgery" and $90.00 for "Testing / X-ray / Lab." Insurance paid $296.20 and I paid $74.05. AND...I was billed $74.00 for "Testing / X-ray / Lab." Insurance paid $8.58 and I paid $2.15. So, to get a fill at Cedars-Sinai, in August of 2004: ~~Cedars and the doctor billed a total of $1573.06; and ~~My insurance paid $637.54; and ~~I paid $251.30. So I DID overestimate, but still, it was WAY more than a couple of hundred bucks. AND, if I hadn't had insurance I'd have had to make prior price arrangements or be responsible for the whole $1573.06. Add THAT to the cost of an apartment in Los Angeles and you get an idea of why--even though the pay is higher--many people won't come here to work!

NewSho...remember, I was banded back when in the greater Los Angeles area, your choices were the guys at Cedars or Quebbemann in Newport Beach. As new band docs came on board, one or two would CONSIDER doing a fill for Mexican surgeon's patient, if--and only if--I had endoscopy first. My last Cedars' fill (circa 8/2004), insurance was billed around $850-900 and I paid about $300 out of pocket and insurance paid MOST of the rest. (I think.) The thing about "what insurance covers" and "what insurance doesn't cover" is that it can change every plan year. In my case, it didn't cover banding at all when I was banded. Then it changed TO cover banding and the fills. Later it changed to exclude BMI's over 50 from banding. Now they have this little ditty: "Adjustment of gastric band diameter via subcutaneous port by injection or aspiration of saline. Note: medical necessity criteria for adjustments are based on whether or not the original surgery was considered medically necessary. Note that it DOESN'T say by WHOM it has to have been considered medically necessary. Any surgeon in any country? What if the insurance you had at the time okayed banding for BMI's of 51, but this insurance does not...would that still be considered to be retroactively medically necessary? (Can you tell there are too many attorneys in my family? LOL.) Sue