GeezerSue

I am not angry; I'm frustrated with ignorance. I'm not bitter; I'm honest. That you would call me simple-minded is laughable--and rude, coming from someone who wants all the posts to be sunshine and happiness. I didn't assume you were a day care worker SOLELY because you work with children. I assumed that because your research didn't strike me as professional and you seem to think that someone's blowing ten grand to try to stop dying is breaking the bank. So you sounded like a tradesperson as opposed to a professional of any kind. And, I've known about karma since before you were born...we'll see whose friend Karma is, won't we?

Bingo! And good for you...you know the plusses and minuses and I assume you have made your choice based on facts...and that you are checking reliable sources. Like pub med or other peer-reviewed stuff. If I WERE trying to "talk people out of the surgery" I'd be in all those threads welcoming the new folks, warning people. I don't do that. When there is a regrets thread, I repsond. When someone is having complications, I respond. When someone is already banded and having problems, I NEVER EVER say "nonnie, nonnie, nonnie." In fact, if someone is new and struggling, I encourange them to keep trying. HOWEVER, if someone HAS been trying and is still having problems and all she is hearing is more atta-boys and it's been a couple of years and she obviously feel like the Lone Ranger, I enter the discussion. Look, if I had gone to have the DS without knowing it had a higher mortality rate AND a lifetime of malabsorption and without reading everything I could get my hands on, I'd have been an idiot. As they say, "I paid my money and I took my chances..." I'm encouraging everyone else to do the same.

My grandfather was born in Casa Grande in 1896 and I can read every word you wrote!!! The one test I should have had but didn't was manometry. It tests the function of the esophagus...whether the the little waves--muscle spasms--that massage the food down the esophagus into the stomach are stong or weak. They tend to be weaker in older people (I was 55 when banded) and in the obese (my highest BMI was 51+.) So I was a candidate for that test. We would have know if I had good function going into the surgery or not...and, if it was weak, a wise surgeon might have told me to go away. (Although I was so convinced that it was the band or nothing, I would probably have found another doctor.) I don't think there is anything that test could do to prevent problems, except maybe to dissuade someone who is higher risk for dysmotility issues to consider another surgery. Living with an esophagus that has shut down is miserable. It's not a fun test... http://www.gicare.com/pated/epdgs31.htm

Again, I'm sorry that they don't pay day care workers any better...but the money for the band just wasn't a huge deal for me. And it wasn't about making a tool work...it was about esophageal damage.

Cindy, I agree with most of YOUR post. The band-bypass comparisons are a little shaky because someone like Fielding in NY has a wonderful follow-up program (as he did in Australia) and YEARS of experience and his results show that. But there are now HUNDREDS of banding surgeons in the US and many of them have little experience and no follow-up programs. Years ago, CoffeeWench, one of the original bandsters in this country put it something like this...OF THOSE WHO ARE GOING TO FAIL, the RnY people lose weight and regain it and the banded people never leave morbid obesity...only she said it better. Anyway, an unbiased comprehensive comparison from multiple practices is in order. The RnY didn't have to be approved by the FDA becasue there is no appliance involved. Same with DS. Only the band needed FDA approval, because it is an implanted device. (Although I'm not sure where the silastic ring used in the Fobi pouch falls...) I wouldn't trust an insurance company to make any decision I had an opinion about...I'm just saying that if they had an excuse to deny those surgeries, they would. I have BC-CA. First they didn't cover the band. Then, after I got mine, they did. Now they do, but only for BMI's under 50. They covered DS when I got it. This week, they're saying it's "investigational," EVEN THOUGH MEDICARE HAS JUST APPROVED IT...which pretty much proves it isn't investigational. If they could deny claims based on the risks of the surgery, they would. And yes, the RnY people have to watch out for malabsorption. Not as much as DS people do, but they have some malabsorption. I cannot tell you how many people I have seen who just don't have the resources to follow up, whatever the surgery...people who have killer reflux and are aspirating stomach acids who can't afford a band adjustments because they got a divorce after surgery and now have no medical insurance...or the NURSE at my DS surgeons office who told all of us to take OUR supplements and then neglected to take her calcium (DS'ers HAVE TO TAKE calcium...forever) and ended up on calcium INFUSIONS every day...or RnY people who have NO money and don't take vitamins and don't have labs and (really, you can google it) end up with" bariatric beriberi." ~~~~~~~~ StephC...I do not think that all pre-ops are uninformed, although some very much are. I think that pre-ops are inexperienced. Like love and marriage and babies and all that good stuff...until you've been there, it's all theoretical. This was a thread asking for regrets...from those who have been through the experience.

"Fellow bandsters?" Did they move up your surgery date? Honey, I'm a fellow bandster...you are an anxious pre-op probably hoping that your surgery will be perfect and scared to death it won't and--to deal with that fear--you want everyone who is saying something you don't want to hear to go away. Ain't gonna happen. If you are comfortable with your choice of surgery, hearing about the risks involved shouldn't get your panties in a bunch. But, if it does, STOP OPENING THREADS THAT DEAL WITH PROBLEMS, COMPLICATIONS AND REGRETS!!! Or, stop bitching about what you read when you get there.

If you don't want to read about negative results, you might try NOT OPENING threads asking for people with regrets to speak up. Where were you on reading comprehension day? I repeatedly say that the band works for some people. What is there about that statment that makes it invisible to you?

#1--Okay, here's a simple chart from a surgical group that does ALL FOUR of these procedures...so they can make money from whatever procedure you choose, therefore they have no financial motivation to have a "favorite" procedure: http://www.lapsf.com/weight-loss-surgeries.html You can only look at the average results with each surgery, because those are based on the big picture and years of results. The AVERAGE 280 pound person whose ideal weight is 140 will have the following results two years out or so: With the band, she will weigh 196, with a BMI of around 37 or 38. (If the comorbidities still exist, she will STILL be eligible for wls.) With the RnY, she will weigh 182, with a BMI of around 32 or 33. With the DS, she will weigh 168, with a BMI of around 29 or 30. And the average risks are in direct proportion to the average loss, with a lower motality rate from the band, next mortality rate from the RnY and the higher mortality rate from the DS. (And, yes, there are people who lose MORE...but for every person who loses more there is someone who loses LESS, that's how we get averages.) Someone--maybe it was Cin--said she wanted a surgery from which she was more likely to wake up. Second time around, I wanted a surgery from which I was more likely to achieve a normal weight. #2--The surgical procedures take from 40 minutes to a few hours, depending on how many complications there are once surgery begins. The surgery-related mortality rates cover death FOR ANY REASON in the 30 days following surgery. The surgery itself is over in a day. But a higher percentage of patients survive the banding surgery than survive the other surgeries, no doubt about it. Then comes the hard part. IF you are dying from morbid obesity...and IF you have a surgery that works, you STOP dying from morbid obesity. If however, you have a surgery that leaves you STILL morbidly obese (which is the reason Blue Cross-CA gives for no longer covering the band for patients with BMI's of 50 or higher, but applies equally to any surgery that doesn't work for YOU), then you are STILL dying from morbid obesity. #3--Finally, look at your last paragraph. The OP on this thread wasn't trying to AVOID people with regrets. The OP was seeking out those who had regrets...and ends up with a shitload of people who are pre-banded and just banded insisting that those who DO have regrets with their own experience shouldn't mention it. Brilliant. I hope this information helped. ~~~~ Oh..and some "supportive" person here was gloating because I paid cash for my band and was glad that I was out of pocket for the money. For the record, it was only ten grand and I wrote a fucking check. I'm sorry that, in this day and age, $10,000 is such a huge number to you...whoever you are. If you want to laugh at someone who had to get a loan or mortgage the house and is not happy with what surgery THEY purchased, you'll need to move along and find a poorer person to laugh at...which I'm sure you'll be both able and inclined to do. (And, also for the record, I had contacted a couple of European surgeons who had been taking bands out for years and was going to pay cash for the second surgery...until we learned that with the damage the band was causing and because I again met surgery criteria, my insurance would pick up the tab for the revision.)

I'm sure there will be entertainment value in your post-banding posts, as well. I can't wait to read what you have to say once you have a clue.

Okay...I'll try again. THiS was an inquiry into regrets. Some of us have a few. If you are about to have this surgery--or recently banded--and hear that someone else did NOT experience a safe, simple, successful journey to a healthy weight...it might feel threatening. That's because MOST of us read that all it takes is following the rules and people who follow the rules will succeed. Truth is, some do and some don't. And most people don't want to face that risk, so they'd rather shoot the messenger...as though that will protect them from some possible failure. There is (obviously) a lot of emotional garbage that enters into a wls desicion. Once you get there, and convince yourself that it is time to take this step, it is difficult to accept that it still might not work. WLS MAY work; it MAY not. I will repeat for those who would rather go for creative interpretations of what I'm TRYING to communicate: 1--No wls is without risks...INCLUDING the band. 2--The most successful procedures carry the highest risks. 3--The RnY and DS are not the killer surgeries that band-or-nothing people claim they are. (If they were, our insurance companies would use that excuse to not pay for those surgeries.) 4--There is no BEST wls. 5--What's right for someone who is 30, may be the wrong choice for someone who is 60. What is right for someone who was a normal weight and became wheelchair-bound and recently gained 150 pounds may be wrong for someone who has been obese since childhood. 6--LapBand is the safest SURGERY...but SURGERY IS OVER IN A DAY. 7--LapBand and RnY have similar long-term results. 8--The DS has better long term results than the band or RnY, but has life-long malabsorption issues. (More so than RnY.) 9--Many people are not prepared financially, emotionally, intellectually to provide themselves with proper post-op care, regardless of surgery. 10--When my band worked well, it worked well, AND I still regret waiting so long to have my band removed once it became problematic. If I recall, I was one of the first people on this board to announce that I was having my band removed. Since then, many people have had their bands removed for many reasons. I don't have a problem with the band needing to be removed...I have a problem with people who are so emotionally invested in the concept that if they follow the rules everything will be just fine that they have no other technique than to try to chase away the person bringing the news they don't want to hear. The why-don't-you-go-away chants aimed at me--and I have been here since Alex decided one day on the old Spotlight board to start this place because there were no band-only boards around--are ridiculous...especially coming from people who have little or no experience with the band. I almost NEVER discuss the whether someone should or should not get the band. I answer inquiries into regrets, and complications and other areas where I have experience. Frankly, I don't care who gets a band and who doesn't. But I DO care when people are being fed bullshit. If someone--or an Army, for that matter--does not like me or the way I respond to posts, they might want to hit the ignore button and remove me from their view. THAT would be the intelligent thing to do...which is why I don't expect those who claim I'm terrible to read to do anything like that. They would rather mis-read, misunderstand and mis-paraphrase me...so that they have a place to hang their fear of failure. Again...my problem is not with people getting or not getting the band...my problem is with ignorance and lies.

Yes...THIRD and LOW.

Telly, I'm glad you have something positive in your life today.

FONT="Comic Sans MS"] Again, for those who didn't read it the first time...here is the question: isnt bypass/ds/etc "damaging" the body by removing/sectioning the stomach? ANYTHING that invades the body has the potential to "damage" the body...but if the same part of the stomach that is removed in DS is removed due to stomach cancer or severe damage due to ulcerations, is that also damage to the body? Or is it just a procedure to correct a problem? If you want to read in some negative thing that I didn't write, go for it. But know that I am not the source of the negative spin...THAT comes from people who don't want to hear anything that might burst their bubble. ALL surgeons walk away (not to imply abandoment) after the surgery. (Again, WHO is looking for a negative spin? I wasn't implying anything...I don't tend to "imply" things...I just say what I'm thinking.) They have to trust their work...but the band surgeon has to trust that the band will stay where he put it...and that just doesn't always happen. I've been on wls boards for close to five years now and slippage due to vomiting is not as rare as some would like to believe. And, it isn't always easy to detect. Usually, it takes people a while to accept that something bad is happening, and then not all surgeons--and not everyone gets in to their surgeon right away without first going through a gauntlet of his helpers--sometimes miss the diagnosis. It often takes a while. If I were focusing on worst case scenarios, I'd forever be mentioning the woman whose band cut off blood flow to her entire stomach and--last we heard from her--she was looking at a future with a bag. And, yeah, her band was "easily" removed...leaving behind a mess. I tend not to go there...I tend to focus on the more frequent problems. Who can't tolerate food? I had solid food post-DS far sooner that I did post-band. I know of some people who have had problems at surgery who have had feeding tubes...for a while...but that is a far easier fix than a band removal. "Malabsorption so bad that medicines can't be absorbed?" Where is this coming from? Most medicines come in more than one form...which people with bands should be aware of since they are not--after banding--good candidates for NSAID's for pain relief. I agree with MOST of what you say..and wish I saw more of it here. I did have a higher risk of dying during my <120 minute DS-revision than I did with my 40 minute banding...but those things each happened in less than one day. It's the REST of my life that I was focused on. Yes, this is a banding support site. But, as such, it isn't necessary to promulgate FALSE information about the hazards of the other choices. Some people--well, according to European statistics, a LOT of people--will move on to another wls after banding. They should be considering the band the FIRST step...and if it works, fine. They should not be getting fed false rumors about how the other surgeries will kill them or make them stink or ruin their lives...because that just is not true. NO wls is the perfect one for everyone...I've said that repeatedly. And I've mentioned that, at age 60-ish, I have different long-terms concerns about malabsoprtion that someone who is 30-ish might have. But banding did "work" for me as well as it "works" for number of people. I lost some weight, I got reflux, I had multiple adjustments and weight gain, I had esophageal dysmotility. Other people--several years out--have other problems. SOME people have no problems. But the flippant "oh, well, no biggie, it can always be removed" comments coming from people who haven't lived through those espisodes of Life With the Band, is--at best--a tad irritating. It ISN'T "no big deal" when you can't swallow, or when what you swallow comes back up even if it's only Water, when you aspirate stomach acids, or when you live through months or years of band-related problems. First...about the honesty of bandsters. They are NOT as honest as you might think. They keep trying to protect/defend their decision to have chosen the band rather than one of the other surgeries and they blame themselves for not doing their part instead of considering another move. And they sit there, still (or again) obese or still (or again) MO. (That behavior is particular to the band, btw.) Band patients almost all blame themselves for the band's not delivering the results they were hoping for. AND THEN, because they think of themselves as the weak link in the chain, they don't go out in search of a procedure that does work for them. (In Europe, where patients are taught they the band ios what they'll try first, they accept that fact that some people will have success and other will not. One European surgeon who is a long-time band/RnY/DS surgeon wrote me and said that fully 20% of his practice is now removing bands and revising to another wls.) Then, maybe you haven't read enough "newbie" posts (here and other places). Post-ops who really believe that they could eat just like before only a little less...who didn't know about drinking with meals...who didn't know about taking food slowly after adjustments...about why they aren't losing weight immediately post-op...about why the left shoulder hurts...about why they lost 20 pounds the first week and then nothing for three weeks..about NSAID's post-op...and on and on. When there were thirty banding doctors, the patients were FAR better informed. We KNEW what to expect and there were no surprises. Now, there are more INexperienced surgeons banding UNeducated patients. It's a dangerous combination. [/font]

Yes, there are...probably with former banded people there, too. You might want to visit some of them. (I didn't have RnY.) But, so far, it appears that I have a band and you do not...you might want to think about that for a while.

Thus reducing the team roster on the "very ignorant people" side. Keep up the good work.

Yes, that's it...everyone who has been banded and posts here--except one--has lost weight and is doing well. Yes...sure.

I can't speak to the RnY, but the stomach removal part of the DS is done by a surgeon...just like the punching holes in the belly parts of the band placement are done by a surgeon. If done correctly--which is why you want a really experienced guy doing it--there is a "rearranging" but everything functions. A well-placed band is not always as reliable as one might hope, because once the surgeon places the band, he walks away and the band can still move. Morning sickness, a nasty bout of flu, and food poisoning can all undo the very good work of a very good surgeon and the best intentions of a totally compliant patient. The band CAN make the esophagus stop working or cause relux so bad that sleep is non-existent or that Barrett's or some other problem develops. In other words, it CAN cause things to STOP functioning. So, I don't think that having my innards rearranged is damaging things any more than my having a breast reduction damaged anything. It made it DIFFERENT, but functioning.

It usually DOES work and the really simple folk usually manage to keep their distance. Buh-bye, now.

Great!!! Now I have TWO uninvited spokespersons who are more than a tad off plumb on the details. I do not respect--as in "honor"--people who have not given me a reason to honor them. If you do, have at it. And as far as SHOWING a total lack of respect--such as by entering this discussion when it didn't really involve you and inferring that I'm a "true unhappy person"--you are doing such a good job of it, I'll defer to your expertise. Other than that...I've lost 112 pounds, my labs are great, I've gotten laid twice today and the night is still young...and we're headed out to dinner. NOT an unhappy person at THIS computer...

I'm a happily married woman, the mother of a wonderful adult daughter and I don't need anyone to feel sorry for me. USUALLY, I'm happy. Except that simple people irritate the crap out of me. Everyone has had horrible things happen in ther lives. I don't respect people unless they have EARNED my respect. Did I miss anything?

Telly, When the band starts to damage the body...that is--IMHO-- a failure. And it sure isn't the failure of the person whse body is being damaged. BUT, in medical circles, when a patient has NOT lost 50% of his or her excess weight one year out, it is defined as a failed surgery.

#1--For the record, I am down 112 pounds from my highest weight. The band failed, for me and for others. Another surgery has worked well. #2--Newbies who want to be handled with kid gloves, should probably not make statements explaining the motives of others...as in "Regarding the negative feedback you're seeing here. Keep in mind. Most of the people that seek out a site like this either NEED help or are having trouble." I don't need help; I'm not having trouble. I just have something negative to say about the band...in the hopes that someone who came here seeing only pink ponies and rainbows might go into the project with a more realistic view of what ELSE might in store for her. #3--No one who has REALLY read ANY of my posts would write: "...I wouldn't have thought that either of you would be so short or sarcastic with someone." You must have me confused with someone who is more concerned with tact than with honesty. Carry on...

Thanks, all... Margaret, I don't LACK for good food. I start each day with two or three slices of bacon and a one-egg cheese omelette and a small glass of OJ. Later on in the morning, I may have some Raisin Bran (from Trader Joe's) for the Iron boost. I go to the gym now and at the little Greek fast-food place, I have some steak on a skewer. dinner is usually fish, sometimes chicken, cooked in a healthy way...and some veggies. I try to remember to drink a Protein drink once a day. I avoid flour if possible, so there's not a lot of bread or Cookies in my life...but there is no flour in Fritos. And no flour in Peanut Butter cups. And not flour in Trader Joe's Dark Chocoate Roasted Pistacho Toffee..you see the problem? And, because the surgery was NOT on my head, that's what I do when my husband calls and says, "Hey, Babe...I'm gonna work a double," which means I'll see him when he pops in at midnight and goes right to bed. Boredom and missing my honey...not a good things for me. I think your friend needs to have her doctor order up some labs for her. Those will tell the tale. I get them every few months.

I had my band removed as part of a revision to the Duodenal Switch (DS) surgery. My surgeon had done it before and the entire procedure--band out and DS done--was under two hours. It is not "cartoon simple," as he put it, especially since yours is moving around...but I've heard of more erosion-related removal problems. good luck... Sue

Or...they've given up and gone away because they stopped losing weight and think there is something wrong with them... BTW...some of us have been online for YEARS...first, as pre-banded; then as newbies; then as successful bandsters; then as not-so-successful bandsters; then as "failures"; then as revisions to something else. So, SOME of us are not here seeking help at all, but offering experience...because we've been everywhere there is to go on the banding journey.