LivingFree!

At 4 years out, I have regularly attended my support groups through my health care provider (4times/month) since surgery. I believe it has been a key factor in my success. However, at about 2-1/2 to 3 years out, the balance between "giving back" and self-benefit shifted considerably to much more "giving back" than receiving the support I need. I'm wondering if most vets who are more than about 2-1/2 years out would agree that our issues often become a lot different than those first two years or so. It would be interesting to know if anyone's health care providers have support groups SPECIFICALLY for those of us who are more than 2 or 3 years post-op? My guess would be NO. I am struggling with mostly "mental" stuff that I never imagined I'd be dealing with as a result of WLS, especially this long after surgery. (Been toying with writing a thread about this, but still deciding. Interestingly, it does not center around food/weight control issues. I worked insanely hard to change my eating habits that first year, so I have been able to control my cravings, junk carbs, grazing, etc so I haven't gained weight, but I also know how vulnerable I am to that possibility right now.) To the OP, it would be hard in a group of 150+ people. Our groups are usually 20-25 max, and led by a mental health professional. I have stayed connected to the support groups most recently if for nothing else than for the benefit of the wisdom of the responses from the M.H. professional, and of course for the up-to-date bariatric information that is announced from time to time in the groups. MichiganChic, your post is so well stated, and I hope your concerns are heard by your medical team! I do feel too that I need all the help I can get, and having that accountability is BIG for me. No matter how "not ideal" our support groups are, they still make us "physically" put ourselves in a WLS setting so we can refocus on remembering that we have a lifelong JOB to do! Lately I have to force myself to find just ONE THING that I can walk away from the group that day that made it a positive experience, but I DO FIND AT LEAST THAT ONE THING!

PMJ said it so well. Life IS too short. All this unpleasantness on this thread is just plain sad.

QUOTE Thanks for the support and ideas everyone. I have made an effort to drink more Water today, an upped my Protein. I was surprised how quickly I felt full, which I am pleased about. I have had too many calories though, mainly due to finishing my daughter's unwanted food, which is a habit I need to change! I went and bought a load of Jerky, cheese sticks and nuts, so hope I can stick with this and get some control back! Today I had: 2 poached eggs with 4 steamed asparagus spears Large Cappuccino (shouldn't have had) 4oz roast pork and half an apple Most of a small box of kids pure orange juice (shouldnt have had) Stick of cheddar cheese Crusts from my LO's toast ???? One chicken and veg fajita with bit of grated cheese If I can cut the coffee and daughter's food I should be under 1200 cals without feeling too hungry. I hope! UNQUOTE Sorry for the messy post--my REPLY post feature isn't working right. Grrr. I love the great support and ideas other are posting for you so far! One point I'd like to make--At 5 years out, eating approx 1-1/2 cups of food per meal is a good, expected average amount. My opinion is that you are not eating TOO MUCH, you just weren't eating the highest quality food at your meals/snacks that is required to maintain your weight. And, of course, depending on your individual circumstances, 1000-1200 cals to maintain is often a good average for many women. So 2 poached eggs with asparagus is a great breakfast! Adding much more fresh veggies to your eating plan will give you more Fiber and help with satiety. Maybe switching out the sugary orange juice with real oranges (again, fiber)? Keep your protein up--again, depending on your medical team's recommendations, 80-100gm/day is often a good average. I am a big believer in not telling myself "I shouldn't." If I say "I choose not to" it gives me much more power to make better decisions. And, maybe for now that cappuccino could become just once/twice a month instead of as often as you're doing it now until you feel more in control again. I believe we do not have to eliminate forever the things we especially like, but we do have to take time to train ourselves to learn how to CONTROL them so they no longer have power over us. Keep up your good work!

It is NEVER too late! The most important thing right now is to remember to be gentle (yet firm) with yourself. That was then, THIS IS NOW. If you really stop to think about it, you DO KNOW where to start, and how to get back your POWER. You actually answered your own question when you said "more Protein, more Water, less carby Snacks." Go back to the basics. It is not easy as it was while we were still in our honeymoon period that first year. The mental discipline plays a much bigger part now (I am just approaching my 4 year surgiversary). Grazing and less restriction are facts of life for many of us that we must keep control of. I agree with CanyonBaby's post about eating a snack/meal at 3-hour intervals to keep grazing/cravings/hunger under control. I know (for myself anyhow), the minute I allow any processed, starchy refined carbs back into my eating program, it just sets off a domino effect for wanting more and more. It's an "unfair" fact of my life, but I have had to accept it. I've talked to some others further out who say the same thing about starchy carbs. Please be good to yourself and how far you have come to not entertain thoughts of bulemic behavior. That is not the answer, and there are so many ways to keep your body and mind healthy without resorting to the darkness of that world. I'm glad you have reached out here for support. There are some awesome veterans who post here and I know they can help you get your confidence back on track. You are going to be ok.

I just want to say that I loved reading these posts because they are so inspiring and SO true. WLS is for people who are, without question, ready to be true to themselves and put in the hard work--not just for "a little while" but for the rest of their lives. In doing my preparation for my surgery, I so often came across works published by WLS professionals who stated that weight loss surgery is 10% the actual operation and 90% the mental work (changing unhealthy eating & lifestyle habits, positive attitude, willingness to change, keeping an open mind, commitment to exercise, etc). The surgeons know exactly what they are doing in creating our sleeves. But like everyone has said, it does not do the work for you--the choice is always in YOUR hands how you make your sleeve work. Best to you in your decision-making. For many of us, we have achieved that freedom from the power that food has had over over us for our entire lifetimes, that was there all along for the taking, because we chose to be firmly dedicated to changing our old, unhealthy habits. FREEDOM tastes better than ANY junk food that would ever pass your lips!!!

Thank you for your reply. I agree with what you say. However I am still weighing the pros and cons of getting this surgery. By volume eater I mean that it takes a lot of food for me to reach satiety. That wasn't a problem when I was thin in my teens and early 20's - I ate when hungry, stopped when full and didn't gain weight. That all changed in my late 20's and after my first pregnancy. That's when I started dieting and that's when I started putting on more weight. As to the sleeve controlling hunger - there are certainly enough posts from people on here who say it does just that. Removing grehlin, not feeling hunger, etc.. But of course everyone is different. I've gained a lot of insight about food and dieting having been at it over 30+ years. I know genetics plays a big role for me. I am going through the 6 month diet program and using Alli (which I had a lot of success with before it was removed for product tampering) and see where it goes from there. Thanks, again. Hi again, A little more on the "sleeve controlling hunger" thing--I'm just really passionate that people understand that the getting the sleeve as a remedy for controlling their hunger is a very slippery slope. Sure, we do read posts here from those during their first year or so where they have no appetite (the honeymoon period). Are you also reading posts from an equal number of people more than a year out who still feel their hunger is controlled and they don't have cravings? There's still a lot of head work/eating/lifestyle changes that have to go on to prevent weight regain after the sleeve--much more than I ever imagined. At four years out, most days my appetite feels like it did pre-surgery. The only difference is that I have radically changed my eating habits to not go to the junk; it is a conscious decision every day to make the right choices. You are aleady ahead of the game because you have those good habits having gone through the Band surgery. So in that regard, you will be able to work your sleeve, but it will not do the work for you. For what it's worth, I have attended in-person support groups once a week for over four years and heard the stories of thousands of people. And, sadly, way too many who regained 30, 40, 50 or more pounds because of uncontrolled hunger(and old habits). If you haven't already, maybe hang around the Sleeve Veterans Forum. You have to be one year out to post there, but you can read the posts. There's a few who are 4-5 years post-op who talk about hunger/craving struggles that might give you a little more perspective. I hope you know that I am in no way trying to discourage you from the sleeve. Like I said, it's a wonderful tool, but you don't want to be one of those people who get the sleeve and then end up feeling like "it didn't work."

Hi Cleo's Mom, Please remember that the sleeve will not "control" your hunger. In defining yourself as a "volume eater," you would most likely be quite disappointed. Especially since the RNY is not an option for you, and with your history of GERD, you might just be better off recommitting to your band (if it is not causing you any major problems). If your quality of life is good now, why risk another operation and possible worse GERD as a result of the sleeve. I think with any procedure we consider, we all hear the worrisome things you talk about. What we don't know is how COMPLIANT those people really are being with their eating program and lifestyle. "Getting stuck and vomiting" that you are concerned about with the sleeve is relatively uncommon--perhaps what you are hearing are people who are eating unhealthy foods or not chewing well, etc, etc. Good luck with your decision. The sleeve is a wonderful option and complication-free for many people who remain committed to the forever lifestyle, but only YOU know what is best for you.

Hi Donna (& other pre-ops too)! Congratulations on your decision to have the VSG! You wouldn't be "normal" if you weren't nervous. May I suggest that you try to do the things that help calm yourself so that you are in the best health and relaxed on the day of your surgery. I am so excited for you. I am coming up on my 4-year surgiversary; had mine at age 59. I'm 5', with original weight of 252. I keep my weight at a range of 130-135. I cannot begin to tell you how much it has changed the quality of my life and improved both my physical (and mental) health. No more Type II diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol meds. So many people say they wish they had done it sooner, but for me, I'm not sure I would have been successful "sooner." THIS late in life was the time for me to take this seriously and make "rest of my best years" commitement to change my eating habits and lifestyle FOREVER. Here's a few things that have been key to my success, but of course we are all different. I have attended weekly support groups for the last four years, so I've heard the stories of thousands of people and after awhile, the issues are all very similar. (There have been recent studies published showing that patients who regularly attend support groups have better long-term weight loss success.) 1) Many lose the biggest portion of our weight in the first 6-8 months, so the better you adhere to your program "to the tee" during those months, the better your results will be. Weight loss tends to slow down from there. 2) After you are back on regular eating schedule following your surgery recovery, it helps to make a conscious effort to decide how you are going to treat your consumption of the junk food processed carbs in your life. Some people choose to not eliminate them at all; some choose to eat them in moderation; some choose to eliminate them completely that entire first year until they have firmly changed their old eating habits. After the "honeymoon" period ends (often around one year for many) and hunger begins to return, carb cravings are one of the biggest problems WLSers struggle with and one of the main reason for weight regain. 3) Plan Ahead. Never be caught without healthy snack options. Pre-portion Snacks for the day/week. Keep an insulated bag for your car, etc. 4) Changing your relationship with food is hard. Making conscious decisions to buy, prepare, and eat fresh, whole foods rather than the pre-packaged processed out of a box or can, or frequent fast food or restaurant food is hard. But the more you can change those old habits in the first year so it becomes your normal, the closer you come to the day when you are free from the power food had had over you. It feels great when YOU have the power over your food for the first time in your life! 5) Positive attitude, keeping an open mind, willingness to change, and trying new things. This is a winding road, with some hills and dips. Things don't always go "our way." When they don't, it is NOT because we FAILED, or we're BAD because we ate a cookie, etc. Learning to be good to ourselves is often as hard as losing weight for some people. Relax and remember to have fun along the way! We do not have to be perfect at this... Can't wait to hear the update about your special 3/18 event! All the best to you!

Hi Candice, What you are feeling is REAL and is not your fault. Please talk to your doctor honestly and tell him/her that you need help. This is nothing to be ashamed of. When we are feeling our most depressed, that is when it is the hardest to reach out for help, but you MUST do that for yourself so you can have the energy again to continue the next part of your weight loss adventure. This is a temporary setback. Please find one trusted person in your life to help you through this and guide you to some professional help. You will be so glad you did. I have had some very severe bouts with depression and I want to encourage you that you CAN feel better again, even though it doesn't feel like it right now. You have many people here who care. Let us know how you are doing, ok?

The Candidate, totally agree about standardizing the Program Kaiser-wide. I thought San Diego area was the only one still using 24 weeks. Where in OC are you? The Inland Empire (where I am in So CA) has been 12 weeks for quite a few years now. When I was a pre-op, I sooo wanted to hear from the new-ops about their experiences and that just was not available within the Kaiser program. It's getting better in that sometimes a few pre-ops are being allowed to attend the new-op/post-op support groups, but it is on a case-by-case basis. So glad you got to hear a Guest Speaker and hope they give you many more! I am really personally pushing for a new kind of support group (with no restrictions) where ALL pre-ops can attend to ask all the questions they want. You can be required to attend all the "book learning" classes in the world, but NOTHING compares to being among those who are living their surgeries every day. It is THE BEST education there is. It sounds like you ARE able to attend any post-op support groups NOW (before your surgery) that you want? If that's the case, I highly encourage you to take advantage of that. Keep having FUN--you'll be at your surgery date before you know it. . .

Thanks for your comments, The Candidate. I hope you voice your concerns about the outdated and rudimentary instructional materials to the educators in your Options program (and higher up if you have the time and energy!). If there's one thing I have learned about Kaiser over the years, they positively respond to members' input. Kaiser's bariatric research and practices are top-notch, but ALL bariatric locations need to catch up with providing the most optimal services to all its members. Best of luck to you as you progress through this awesome process!

Hope you found in your Options Orientation that Kaiser's information is VERY up-to-date and is quite informative on the RNY and vertical sleeve options. Also, you will find the 12-week Options classes educational and helpful in beginning to learn about our new lifestyle and eating habits. Kaiser will still do the lapband if a patient absolutely insists on it, but it is highly discourged because of the many complications that procedure has had. Kaiser is doing many revision surgeries to remove bands to either the sleeve or RNY. I am 4 years from my sleeve surgery through Kaiser Fontana and cannot say enough good things about the bari program there. Fontana has four support groups per month. Hope you have a similar experience there in OC. Good luck with your decision!

Jaysleever, yep, we all have to do what works best for us (and what our bariatric team recommends, ESPECIALLY during the first year when we're establishing our new habits). I agree with Babbs though. Eating after 6pm is not going to cause weight gain (unless you have a specific metabollic medical condition). And if you're prone to nightmares, you are probably better off not eating after 6. Usually just a light snack wouldn't cause nightmares--more like a very heavy meal. I personally enjoy my evening snack. I learned that by adjusting my eating times/caloric intake throughout the day, I can include that snack, guilt free. It's just another element of pleasure to my WLS adventure. I love not having to punish myself or feel guilty about anything related to my consumption of food. I think that's mainly because it's a lot easier now to make much healthier choices. I also happen to personally believe that "set points" can be changed and are not necessarily what we are doomed to be stuck with. Also, some people are particularly sensitive to weight gain in their consumption of the starchy carbs (I unfortunately am one of them). But once you know that about yourself there are so many other choices that work just as well, if not better! If you KNOW you have adjusted your eating habits and food choices the absolute BEST you can, maybe it is time to make the decision that your weight is where your body is comfortable. But if you KNOW there are some adjustments you can make to eat CLEANER maybe it's worth a try to see if you get get closer to that 30 waist. Congrats on your progress as of now!

=========================================================== PLEASE NOTE: ONTARIO/CHINO CHAPTER HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED, effective 2/8/15. Special thanks to those who supported our Group since Local Chapters began in May 2014, and continued success to everyone in your WLS adventures. Email ontchinochapter@aol.com will remain valid through June 2015. Sherry Ontario/Chino Local Chapter Leader ===================================================================

BARIATRIC PAL ONTARIO/CHINO COMMUNITY SUPPORT GROUP ***NEXT SUPPORT GROUP IS Saturday, February 7, 2015, 9:30-11:00AM*** Hi Everyone~ Many of you have already been informed that due to personal circumstances, this Support Group Chapter is being discontinued. Please join us on Saturday, February 7 for our FINAL Ontario/Chino Support Group. Our Mini-Topic will be: Guidelines for Our Long-Term (Forever) WLS Success! If you will be coming, please RSVP to this email NO LATER THAN THURSDAY NIGHT, February 5. Thank you--and hope to see you on the 7th! For those of you who are unable to make it on the 7th, thank you for coming to Ontario/Chino Group. I hope you found something among our gatherings that helped guide you to living an improved, enriched, and--most of all--healthier lifestyle. That was my mission for our Group. Continued joy and success to all of you--stay positive and confident! Sherry BariatricPal ONT/Chino Support Group Leader MEETING LOCATION: KAISER PERMANENTE ONTARIO/VINEYARD MEDICAL CENTER (Building A, 3rd Floor), 2295 S. Vineyard Ave., Ontario 91761 DIRECTIONS: From the 60 Fwy, take the Vineyard Ave exit. The Medical Center is on Vineyard Ave, just north of the 60 Fwy (NE corner Vineyard Exit & 60 Fwy). When you enter the short driveway from Vineyard Ave, you'll see a tall building just to your left. That is Building A. There will be ample parking in the lot in front of the building. Enter the building's double doors and you will see a large receptionist area. The elevators are just to your right of the receptionist area. ( DO NOT CHECK IN at the reception desk; proceed directly to 3rd floor.) Standard Disclaimer: Any information provided at BariatricPal Community Support Groups is for informational purposes only. It is not medical advice and should not be substituted for regular consultation with your health care provider.

prowinewoman, One more thing I'd like to add--no matter which insurance carrier you choose, some of the requirements they have are for YOUR BENEFIT, as ridiculous as some of them may sound. The 6 month supervised diet that BC requires is to prepare you to GET REAL about drastically changing your eating habits and lifestyle for life. We all "intellectually" know we have to do that going into this, but "knowing it" and being emotionally ready to "do it" are two entirely different things. And yes, as The Candidate said, some Kaisers still require 24 weeks of Options classes; most are now only 12 weeks though. As you're finishing up the classes you would be having a psych eval appt with a Kaiser therapist and attend one support group and then your surgery date would be arranged. Just please think about not wanting to be in such a HURRY to get to your actual surgery. Remember that WLS is a PROCESS. It is not just about the operation and dropping the pounds. We are WLS patients for life, and we have the disease of obesity for life. It feels really good at four years out from my surgery that I know I've put in the HARD WORK to change my horrible old lifetime of bad and unhealthy habits and now food does not have power over me any more. I have the power over my food, and IT IS JUST FOOD and I use it as fuel and medicine for my body. Hope this helps . . .good luck!

You don't say which Kaiser you would be using. I have been a bariatric patient at Kaiser/Fontana for four years and can tell you that their Bariatric Program is absolutely amazing. You probably would not be able to find more complete care anywhere else in southern California (if you are in So CA). This Program sets you up for long-term succcess, (as long as you are ready to do the hard work that it takes to embark on the WLS adventure). Kaiser's bariatric program does not just do the surgery and then send you on your merry way. They prepare you well in advance of your surgery with intense education, and provide long-term support after your surgery as well. They WANT YOU TO SUCCEED! Sometimes when you are faced with making such a life-changing decision such as weight loss surgery is, maybe the differences in your out-of pocket expenses over what the quality of your care might help you decide. Hope some people post here who have experienced both insurance plans to help you compare. Good luck with your decision.

McButterpants is so right! The more you take your focus off that number on the scale and the more you focus on your overall health habits, you just may find yourself dropping some pounds rather unexpectedly. Have you had that good long talk with yourself recently about whether you are using your food to its best advantage--that is as medicine and fuel for your body (nourishing it with fresh, whole, unprocessed foods)? Sometimes when we get a little further out, it helps to make a "recommitment" to ourselves (whatever that looks like for YOU). I went through that at about 2-1/2 years and went on to lose 20 pounds in the next year just by cleaning up my eating and lifestyle habits. But, along the way, please remember your awesome 100 lb accomplishment! And, something that we all tend to forget--WLS is not intended to lose 100% of our excess weight. The expectation is about 50-60% of excess weight. I'm 5' tall and the BMI charts say I should weigh 100-110 lbs. I weigh 135. My body will not go to 100 or 110 lbs. Would it be nice?--yes. Is it realistic for me?--no. Message is, just please stay good to yourself and maybe examine whether you're chasing a number that may or may not be realistic for YOU.

If you are unable to locate that, just wanted to pass on that Quest Nutrition has recently (in last month or two) come out with an unflavored Protein powder. Approx nutrition info per 30g scoop (about 4Tbs) -- Cal=100 Pro=23g. Available at Amazon, questnutrition.com, Vitamin Shoppe, GNC, etc. Careful about GNC--they seem very expensive. Retail most places seems to be $36-39.99 per 2 lb tub. Good luck finding what you're looking for.

All the best to you, JerseyJules!

I love that Rosie is giving long-needed publicity to the sleeve. I don't like that sometimes she almost "apologizes" (justifies) that she "had" to get it because of her heart attack, but I guess it's a step in the right direction. Is there a way you can let us know when this will air?

s These responses from all your caring friends will remain here when or if you need them again. Great to hear of your decision. It is so OK to just keep doing what feels right for YOU. Surgery is not for everyone and just may not be for you. It sounds like you have a great plan in place. Changing our relationship with food is a huge key to success with any weight loss program, so behavorial counseling will certainly give you some good ideas for keeping on track. Believe in yourself, as you say! You can (and need to be) your own best cheerleader.

I think you are verbalizing so well what many of us go through when we are making our decision--fear of something going wrong (complications). Why do you think YOU would have complications? Hundreds and hundreds of WLS surgeries are done every day without complications. Successful surgeries are the norm; surgical complications are infrequent. Part of "being ready" is to have begun working on our self-talk and cultivating an overall positive attitude about the surgery--being ok with taking that "leap of faith" that your procedure WILL BE successful and uncomplicated. You arrive at this by doing your research, having confidence in your bariatric team, talking in person with as many post-op patients as you possibly can, and knowing that you already are preparing to be totally compliant with the major changes that come with your new eating/lifestyle bariatric plan that will be your forever reality. My opinion is that if you are thinking about surgery with the intention of "reversing" it, you are definitely not ready. And I know your head is probably spinning by now, but please remain gentle with yourself and commend yourself for knowing (whether consciously or subconsciously) that you were not ready when you were lying on that table. You made the right decision at that time!!! WLS is FOR LIFE, no matter WHAT PROCEDURE you choose.

Hi Susan, Personal circumstances. I'm sad too. Who knows--maybe someone will have interest in creating a new Local Chapter in our area. How was the 5K? You didn't get rained out, did you?

You might want to ask yourself this--the lapband is major surgery too. Why would you want to do ANY type of WLS only "temporarily?" Why would it make you feel better if you could remove the lapband? The only reason people do that is if there are complications with it and they are medically forced to.