swizzly

I think I've unconsciously been doing the TDEE eating, even though I never calculated it or did it deliberately. Having read a bit more about it by now, it totally makes intuitive sense to me. Either way, quite low cal eating is never going to be my path to success, so I'll take whatever works, and I kind of trust myself (when I'm not blinded by hunger lol) over most formulas or plans.

You ARE the master of skinniness!!! It's not about 'never' doing something 'bad' like eating from emotions (there are very good reasons people do that, by the way, scientifically speaking, and none of them have anything to do with people being weak or bad...). It's about recognizing it in the moment, not attaching it to shame and/or self-denigration, and moving forward with your head held high. <3

Just completed my sixth week of 5:2, ate 578 calories, I was super hungry today. But now I'm on normal days till next Monday... Still haven't determined if I've lost any weight, but I'll keep at it! I definitely eat more that 12-1300 calories on normal days, much closer to 1800 or 2000. I don't know how you small eaters do it, I don't overeat per se and I eat pretty low carb (because of the no grains thing), but I have to have enough food. I tell ya, I'm a hungry girl. Sheesh. Maybe I deserve to not be losing... :ph34r: ETA: I LOVE sugar Cookies with icing -- if they're made with yummy real ingredients (read: butter LOL), they are soooo one of my weaknesses along with cake... Oh man. I need to go to bed early LOL.

I looked pretty baggy and droopy for a while, but I think I look better now. That said, I have horrid bat wings and a wattle from hell. Alas. You get used to it, or at least I mostly have.

On 5:2 I definitely track on the fasting days or I'd be over 500 in no time LOL. But I am not tracking on the normal eating days, and anyhow there's no way I could live on 1200-1300 cals per day, that is way too few for me! How do you super-low-cal eaters do it??

Thanks, Oregondaisy! But I was definitely headed in a bit of a wrong direction, and gained two kgs for real -- and we all know how that turns into 5, then 7, then 10...etc. So I wanted to nip that RIGHT in the bud -- and also get to my ultimate goal of 65kg. Plus, I'm keenly interested in the health benefits of fasting anyhow, so if I do lose all the weight I want to, I will still do 6:1 to maintain I think. I'm always starving on fast days but then on the next eating day, I am not running into the kitchen in a hurry or anything. It's weird...but I like it.

Congrats, Georgia! Well done... I have posted in this thread already I presume, or I wouldn't be getting notifications, but I am too lazy to go see what I've already said. So here's a summary of where I'm at now, 2.5 years post-op... What I had going for me pre-op... Was not a binge eater Always stopped when full; had good strong 'full' signal Was "only" BMI 40-ish and didn't have health problems apart from newly acquired hypertension Used public transport and walked every day Had higher-than-average basal metabolic rate What I had against me pre-op... Hadn't 'dieted' in years, was used to eating what I wanted, when I wanted Over 40; hypothyroid, though successfully treated already for many years History of eating and exercising disorders and some bad compulsive tendencies from way back What I had going for me post-op... Surgery easy like falling off a log, very little pain whatsoever; no nausea or vomiting (at all since surgery!) since day one post-op when I got the dry heaves Supportive and very 'moderation-based' program that didn't encourage calorie counting or any other similar behaviors (which are potential triggers for me) Program that moved to 'real' food on day four post-op -- no shakes used; I could eat normal food from the start, which I think helped with head hunger and cravings Lack of access to (or desire for) junk food and fast food Had a proper, strong 'full' signal back within a couple of weeks of surgery! Boy was I happy to see that old friend... What I had against me post-op... Never, ever lost my hunger/appetite, not even for a day or two. I've been hungry, same feeling as I had pre-op, the entire time. I consider this also to be an advantage though...because... I could eat 1000+ cals early out (this was a deliberate goal of mine, as I didn't want to tank my metabolism which was high for my age, yay!), so I also don't consider this a minus, but I know some people would, so I'm putting it as a challenge, because... Already at one year post-op I could eat quite a lot of food, I could -- and still do -- eat 1500-2000 cals per day even without eating junk food I didn't start a proper exercise program until nine months post-op -- again, though, this is also a positive for me cos I can get crazy pretty easily and I need to manage one potentially obsessive behavior at a time... This all netted out in me reaching my own initial goal (don't have one from surgical program, they don't roll that way) of 75kg within like 12-14 months I think? And then over the next few months, getting to my next goal of 70kg, which put me on the borderline between 'normal' and 'overweight.' Then I wanted to get down to 65kg just cos I wanted to, and that's where I'm at today -- still trying to get to 65kg, plus trying to take a couple of kilos that snuck on in my holidays, the wee bastages. (NB: Sig line still says 68kg cos that's the lowest weight I've been at, for a couple of weeks at one point.) What I feel I have going for me now? Well, I went sort of paleo about six months ago and gave up eating wheat and all grains and most legumes -- not eating these saves a whole crap ton of calories cos wheat and grains are in everything yummy/bad for you. I TRY to avoid sugar, though I do eat dark chocolate nearly every day. I drink too much wine, I should cut that out more. But life is also meant to be enjoyable so I'm on the fence about some of these things... I do work out about three times a week, and I every day walk to work and home. And since about six weeks now, I've been doing 5:2 to try and get to the 65kg range. So far, I can't tell if I've "lost" ANY weight on the 5:2 cos of my usual scale bouncing all the time. I bounce between overweight and normal 3-4 times in any given week. So I kind of ignore it and just note the general trend. Which I haven't seen one yet. So all you 5:2 losers are making me jealous! And, I really don't eat too much 'junk' food, though I can put a hurting on a bag of nuts. Naughty. I can't give up the peanut butter so I eat it off a small spoon several times a week. I gave up Quest Bars cos the fibre in them was causing me problems, but I totally love them and would still eat them if I could! I eat a high-fat diet, always have since surgery as I hate low-fat or altered foods -- though I use some of them again now for the fasting days... I eat a lot of olives. Avocados. Chicken. Beef (esp raw like tartare or carpaccio yum). Calf's liver (yes I love it). Tuna. Mozarella and tomatoes. Cheese in general. Greek yogurt. Paleo recipes and casseroles. Veg. Yum. I eat yummy stuff, and now I want to cry having described it all cos it's a fast day and I'm HUNGRY lol. And I like how fast days make me feel (AFTER THE FACT!), but I am bummed I'm not losing weight from them yet. And I refuse to count calories/track food (I only pull the food scales out on fast days) the other five days, so me and my psyche and my body are at an impasse it seems. But I'm happy with where I am, I'm happy with the process, I don't stress over it, I didn't fret about losing weight really fast, I will never be overly focused on the numbers cos I just can't go there. So I take it easy and try to enjoy the ride...which has gotten me to my second goal, just not my third. Maybe I shouldn't be greedy... Loving this vets' forum. A lot. You all give me the best ideas and keep me going. :wub: ETA: HA! Cheri, THAT is a long post!! LOL...

So here I am at the end of fasting Monday...564 cals, not bad huh? It was 516 but then I had to have a wee Peanut Butter spoon or DIE INSTANTLY. But now I'm going to bed early so I don't have to think about how X would taste so good right about now... Thanks for the hint on the new notification settings -- I did have to unsubscribe and resubscribe with the 'instant' notification, so let's see if that works! Tuesday...normal eating day...hope I find something good to eat. ETA: Starting week five having really not lost anything yet, but bounced ALL over the place, so let's see...holding out hope...

Fasting today after a weekend of hedonistic social occasions. Oy my weight is all over the place, as always...but isn't down yet so far that i can tell. But again, the fasting reset is helpful for me nonetheless. This is my fifth 5:2 week... For lunch I just made a bunch of fresh carrots, cauliflower and broccoli, cooked it in Water with very nice buillion, pepper, chili powder and a small spoon of ghee to make a sort of brothy-sauce. Delish! 250g for 100 cals and I'm stuffed. Still have 350 cals left for dinner, my favorite meal of the day. i will have a Protein fest... :-) ETA: This thread never sends me notifications -- anyone else have that problem? I have to remember to check it more often...

Oh coops, I am totally feeling you on this one. I was just on the 5:2 thread moaning about my sad state of mind. I hate that feeling of being down and discouraged by the GD scales. I have been feeling so fat lately too, especially through the midsection. What is UP with my stomach area?!? Oy, bodies and their stresses... Nevermind, though -- we will pick up the fasting again in the week and we will both do just swell!! {{{hugs}}}

Thanks for the pep talk, lovely 5:2 friends. :wub: I haven't usually needed a pep talk at ALL, so the fact that I was feeling down and discouraged was, in itself, discouraging...if that makes sense. It was a big party weekend with the Zurich Fest last night, so I drank my weight in wine I'm sure. One fast and one failed fast last week, so let's see if I can pull it back together this week... Upcoming weekends have more parties on the agenda, including a whole weekend at a resort for some friends' birthdays, so I am going to have to watch things carefully...

I suck. I'm feeling pretty crap right now. Been doing the 5:2 for four weeks and haven't lost, or lost then gained back plus more. Then today was fast day, did well all day then ate like 800 cals for dinner/dessert, including loads of chocolate for total cals well over 1000 fir the day. I am seriously concerned about my big fat stomach and way discouraged. For the first time in nearly three years. :-(((((

I think I'm in my fourth week now? (I wish someone would keep track of stuff for me, cos I SUCK at it.) So today was my first fast day of the fourth week I guess. The eating days have sometimes been OTT, lots of social events and parties going on. I lost down to the point where my weight started with a 6 again...but then bounced right back up to nearly 72. So I can't tell if I've lost anything at all in the overall four weeks... That said, I like the fasting anyhow, and the feeling of having these days where food is my b*tch LOL. I am not finding it too hard to fast, though I do get a bit irritable from time to time. Maybe I should lay off the sugar on the eating days. I don't eat TONS of it, but it's not helping... Same for all the wine. Alas. I am sticking with this cos I like it, whether it 'works' or not -- how's that for a lifestyle change kind of diet??? Wow... Workouts and walking and all that, per usual. No big whoop to do it on fast day at all. ETA: I fast all day till at least 2 pm and have a small lunch, cos I like my dinner! So I hoard most of my calories for a proper dinner after a long hard day in the office...

I'm just seeing this thread now (and this forum, how did I miss it? Awesome!!) and I'm answering your questions before reading the thread to keep my thoughts unbiased, so apologies if I'm repeating what anyone else has said. First of all: Goal weight. I never really had one -- certainly nothing from the surgeon or doctors/clinic, they just want 'healthy' to be the outcome. That said, my first 'goal' was to get to a double-digit weight (I weigh in kgs, don't be alarmed LOL), which happened very quickly as I started out at roughly 110. My second 'goal' was to get to 75kg cos that is the weight that turns out to be the average for elevators here -- i.e., the limit is 750kg or 10 people, so I wanted to not over-contribute to my share of the elevator weight, having been sensitive about being The Fat American LOL. I got to 75kg roughly nine months post-op I think? Then I wanted to get to 70, check -- I think I was there by 13-14 months post-op? I can't remember well and I suck at tracking anything in a very specific way. I still sort of have this notion of getting to 65, but 68 has been my low so far and 70-ish is my normal range now. My bounce range is 2kg, which is pretty close to your 5-lb range. I've been maintaining in that 70 range for at least a year now. That said, I did gain a bit after a long string of holidays and visitors and overeating and drinking and it wasn't coming right back off again. BUT there are a couple of other intervening variables. One is that I went to a more primal/paleo eating style at least six months ago and gave up all wheat, grains, legumes, so my carbs went way down when I did that. (My sweet tooth suddenly shot up and and I still need to get that back under control, sigh.) I also went low-Fiber cos of digestive issues. But I eat a lot of fat, dairy, meat and veg. I do NOT eat low-cal and I'm against it on principle. I want to keep my metabolism revved up!! So I eat 1500+ every day and more than that on some days. So when I did gain a bit, I also started 5:2 fasting, which I really sort of love. I've been doing that for three weeks and have lost about a kilo doing so. I love the 'refresh' feeling I get from a fasting day, even though they are not a walk in the park, and I love that it's do-able cos I can eat normally again the next day already. If I do lose down to 65kg by doing this, I will switch probably to 6:1 to maintain. I prefer it to restricting on a daily basis, cos calorie counting and denying myself when I'm hungry (oh yeah, I get super hungry -- always have, sleeve never took that one away...) are the pathway to obsession and stress for me, not a recipe for success. So yeah, reached goal, more or less maintaining there, and still in a sort of losing mode at least at the moment. It's much harder/slower to lose at this point, that's clear. But I totally believe that 1kg becomes 3kg becomes 5 becomes 10, so i want to nip things in the bud now, instead of gaining a bunch and having a weight-loss mountain to climb... I work out 3x per week, but not in a massively ambitious way, pretty moderate by American standards, but I also use public transport and walk a lot. So I don't depend on exercise for burning a lot of calories, I eat how I eat regardless of my workouts. Now I'm going to read the thread! :-)

Very interesting topic. There is the precedent of having stomach removal for people who have a genetic likelihood of stomach cancer, some whole family did that. I've wondered about this question in a different way, now that I think about it. I've wondered if our stomachs, our previous normal ones, weren't a bit behind the times from an evolution perspective. Meaning, clearly many of us don't need such big stomachs anymore (or such stretchy ones that can accommodate the feast-or-famine aspect of earlier times) with the wide availability of cheap and calorically dense food. Is there something about having a much smaller stomach that perhaps is more congruent with the world we actually live in? No clear answers of course. I find it interesting as well that they HAVE done RnY here on non-obese individuals with severely intractable diabetes, and supplemented them with, e.g., high-calorie nutritional drinks and/or TPN so that they didn't get too thin post-op. And the national body that decides these things (not sure what it's called, just the health authorities of the country) changed the laws three years ago -- establishing 30 BMI + comorbids / 35 BMI without comorbids as the requirements for having WLS, with also a lot of leeway for exceptions too (these are what the insurance must cover, self-pay isn't really a thing here at all). So they are already doing WLS on smaller people here as part of their overall efforts to curb a huge diabetes problem in the population and a rising problem of overweight and obesity that hasn't historically been an issue. And I believe 16 years old is the minimum age apart from the aforementioned exceptional cases. When I was doing my pre-op course, there were several quite young women in my group, early 20s at most. Preventative per se? Maybe with genetic predispositions? Or with thorough pre-screening to weed out people with eating disorders (in my earlier years I would've had a field day with a stomach of a sleeve size, in terms of being neurotic about calorie counting and restriction...). I would be willing to go to the Overweight BMI category (or maybe better would be a certain body comp fat percentage, as BMI is a blunt instrument at best) for this, but I would be loath to operate on a healthy, normal-weight individual on the off chance they MIGHT one day get fat and/or unhealthy. Not convinced on that one...

Liver enzymes are mental -- they go all over the place for no apparent reason. I am hoping things will be fine!!

Do not regret a single thing! I also don't regret the timing. I did it when I was ready. It's been awesome, 110%.

Just finishing up second fast day of third 5:2 week (so six fast days in total). I'm getting better at the fasting I think -- I have a good routine down. But it's going to be challenging to find two non-consecutive weekdays to do this every week! So far, so good, though. I usually work out on the fast mornings too, no problems with that. I'm SOOOO bad at keeping track of anything, but I *think* I may have shifted a kg so far -- between my bouncy weight all the time anyhow and not remembering what I had got up to, I don't know how far down I am LOL. But I'm also just doing it to see how it makes me feel over time, so... Anyhow, totally do-able!!

WOWSER!! Coops you look wee and AWESOME! Love the cuteness and the attitude!

Well, today I did okay -- 575 cals...close enough, right? I overate some olives LOL. I'm finding the fast days to be a bit difficult, not cos of hunger pangs per se, but because I find it sometimes hard to think and speak articulately. Like maybe I'm having low blood sugar, but not low enough to be hypoglycemic -- just enough to be a bit irritable and not at the top of my mental game. I am hoping this improves over time -- I'm happy to stick with it and see how it goes. And now I'm on feed days till next Monday -- bring on the food and wine!

Yesterday I ate 499 cals LOL. Nicely perfectionistic of me. I'm finding that the first 'feed' day after a fast day is a bit rough. I get overfull really easily and a lot of things don't sit well. I might have to eat a BIT more on fast days and a BIT less on feed days or I will overall be way under calories, which I hate. But it's only three fast days so far, so let's see how it goes...

That is wild. I think the effect of fasting is what is working here, as the calories saved are not driving this if the outcomes are the same for 5:2 and 4:3. This is one of the reasons I do 18:8s on my fast days. Working well so far -- I'm at the end of my third fast day. I rely on eggs, dairy and chicken together with raw veg on these days... :-)