dudeman

Being a male, I liken the analogy that pre-VSG the stomach is a pick-up truck with a 6 foot bed. Throw anything in there and it fits. Post-op VSG, the sleeve is sleek and small like a Ferrari. Being like an Italian sports car, you can barely fit a brief case behind the seats -- and it's temperamental and quirky. Likely to act up .. I don't know if an year from now or more, the sleeve will be stable. But the sleeve is like that, a bit unpredictable how it is going to react to each meal. The meal wasn't eaten too fast. No way. Cottage is not a hard food requiring a lot of chewing. 2 weeks post-op is fairly new sleeve. It hasn't even healed fully yet. Expect the sleeve to do much more of these before it starts accepting most everything you are supposed to put into it. Even if it is on the approve list, there is no guarantee that any sleeve will accept the approved food. A lot of it is individual tolerance too. Some sleeve appear to be made of stainless steel and can tolerate anything so the owners have reported. Others, like mine, act up whenever just like yours. I am 2.5 month out.

Note to Admins -- I took a look at the food & Nutrition section and did not see a thread like the one i am writing here. This section has more views & replies, so I am hoping to keep this thread here despite .. Hi Folks, Coming into VSG surgery, my doctor told me that my relationship with food will change. Via the pre-op psycho analysis visit to his colleague psychiatristpizza place that has pizza by the slice, and we used to get a slice of cheese pizza each and sit down and eat them before driving back home .. nowadays, even if I cut the slice in 1/2 or 1/3 -- the taste isn't there anymore. I can't describe why .. I simply do not enjoy eating this food, though my memory of enjoying this food is still there. You can apply that to EVERY single kind of food and dishes that I used to eat -- the TASTE relationship is not the same. And I've come to the conclusion that what I need to do, is to expand the horizon on foods and get into eating different dishes, ones that I don't used to eat, very often, or never tried before .. Now, to be fair -- I'll go first to offer up a recipe I discovered on the internet that is a "new" dish for me, in the fact that at least -- I never used to eat it as a meal at home. This recipe came about about the first week of going from a semi-liquid diet into solid foods, and all the foods I was eating was very boring or didn't taste good . On this day -- I felt like eating salmon, but not raw as Japanese food but cooked. I knew I needed a nice and tasty sauce, so I found this recipe: *** Pan fried salmon with cream dill sauce *** - Fresh raw salmon fillet (180 grams or less, if too large -- VSG'ers can't finish this) - 1 small lemon/lime - Fresh dill - 1/2 cup cream - 1 table spoon Philadelphia Chive & Chive Cream Cheese - 2 table spoon virgin olive oil - 1/2 table spoon salt - Ground black pepper Pan fry salmon fillet with olive oil for 5~10 minutes pending your fire and temperature until cooked. Separate sauce pan, pour in cream and mix in the cream cheese and stir until the cream cheese has melted and blended into the sauce body. Chop the dill and add it to the sauce, let the dill cook a bit to get the flavor into the cream sauce. When the sauce is done, pour it over the cooked salmon fillet in a serving plate. Slice a piece of lemon or lime and put it on top of the salmon. Done .. quick and dirty. I ate this dish for a while, until I burnt out on it .. now, I'm looking for more recipes to re-vitalize my daily meal agenda .. anybody have any good recipes which you are currently enjoying, which you have tested out yourself and know that it will work for VSG'ers ?? Feel free to jump in and make your contribution. I'm waiting to try out some new dishes.

@Erin92 -- you sound like you are fitting the profile of post VSG depression. See your doctor and find a SSRI that agrees with you.

I used to work with some French people, all of whom drank espresso's straight up .. no sugar. They don't even eat the little cookie that comes with. So I picked up this habit and shocked the first Starbuck's employee who asked me .. what, you don't need sugar ? Nope! But post VSG, I just drink Americano black, short.

I got sleeved on February 8th in Taipei, Taiwan, by one of four physicians who handle VSG there. My doctor was a young gun at it. He wasn't the most experienced but he was the most progressive possibly and my family knew his boss well, so he came highly recommended. I work and live in Hong Kong, so Dr. Wang Wei of the Taipei Medical University Hospital got my business. The total cost was also a great bargain at NTD $ 180,000 or USD 6k+/-. My Taiwanese citizen's insurance covered another USD2k aside from the cash paid. Interestingly, pain medication post-op was optional at around USD200 for the morphine drip, which post-op had I not paid -- it would have made the experience 10 times worst. Overall, the pain was tolerable and short lasting, especially with the morphine drip covering about 24 hours. I had my follow-up in office check on February 15th. It was noted that the weight dropped from 98.6kgs to 91.4kgs in 7 days, mostly due to awful pure liquid diet averaging under 1,000 KCal per day. By 16th February, I was back in Hong Kong and back at the daily grind. I haven't had any contact with the physician, except for 2 phone calls I placed to the office about 2 weeks post-op to ask about issues with vomiting after eating. That's mainly the subject of this thread, my wishing to share my experience with eating post-op and what I learned about VSG on my own after 60 days. The best event I can describe my experience with my sleeve is by an afternoon snack I had after picking up my teenage daughter from school at a local food court in Hong Kong. Now, as you all know -- there are lots of restrictions post-op with VSG. So, it is quite useless to discuss the restricted diet, although there were lots of trials and tribulations there for me personally as well. So, I will describe this afternoon snack which was the very first public eating experience post-op for me, after I was by schedule allowed to eat solid foods. Anyways, before my VSG my daughter and I always enjoy an afternoon snack together. My child is a very picky eater, and most of the time -- she probably didn't eat her full lunch due whatever reason. Pre-VSG -- I would order whatever she was having -- either a cheeseburger and fries set or even sushi, pending our mood and location. So on the first day I was allowed to eat solid foods besides the semi-liquid diet I had been drinking 3 meals a day. And I ordered: 1 set of 6 Japanese Gyoza (similar to Chinese pot stickers) and a frozen smoothie of fresh Mangos. I ate just 2 pieces and left the remaining 4 pieces along with about 80% of the smoothie for my daughter when she arrived from school at the food court. Within 10 minutes of eating those 2 Goyzas and part of that smoothie, which I would estimate at no more than the recommended 100 grams overall weight/volume of food, I was in major discomfort. The feeling is similar to having two lead balls rolling around in a gym sock, except the sock .. is my sleeve/new stomach. Promptly, I walked to the closest toilet and offered up what I ate. I walked back to the food court to find my kid was still working on the remaining of my order. After 20 minutes, she took the smoothie to the car to drink on the drive home. Skipping forward about 5 weeks to current day, which I find myself 65 days post-op. Yesterday, was the first opportunity after that last visit to the same food court. So, just to test out any progress I had made with the new sleeve/stomach .. I ordered the same exact 6 pieces of Goyza and a 8 ounce smoothie. This time, my daughter had her snack of ice cream already, so I set out to eat the whole order on my own. Now, when I started eating, to be honest -- I was expecting to run off to the toilet at any time. Surprisingly, when I took down 2 pieces, then the next 2, and the last 2 .. the pressure from the sleeve I was expecting -- never materialized. I drank about the same 20% of the smoothie and ate slowly. But after about 20 minutes -- I finished the order, and proceeded to walk to the car with my child for the drive home .. still expecting to have to stop on the way at a toilet in case the urge to vomit takes over .. and behold .. made it all the way to the parking level, and along with the walking .. the need to throw all that food out .. never came. So, the moral of the story -- you just need to give your sleeve sometime to adjust. Although the doctor never told me and I figured things out on my own. When you have your stomach reduced by 75%, the post-op sleeve is not only just smaller volume-wise .. the stomach lining not only needs time to heal .. the lining itself by my own experience .. is the part of the original pre-op stomach lining that more than likely had not made contact with much food. It is sort of a "virgin" lining. In addition, the pressure after food enters this narrow sleeve is many many times PSI post-op compared to pre-op when there was ample space in the stomach. Things not only fill up fast, the pressure is incredible and thus it quickly becomes painful when you eat near its 100% capacity. From the above "experimentation" I ended up performing through a period of about 5 weeks .. food and liquid that could not be tolerated roughly 1 months post-op, was easily tolerated 2 months post-op. No doubts about it. The food and drink and patient were all the same. Now, having share this little bit of success -- what I can tell you all is that I still experience urges to vomit. It comes at all times with all kinds of different foods and drinks. There are certain food items that my sleeve still protests to .. to include -- steamed white rice. Now, that's a serious problem for an Asian person in Asia. Although for today's snack -- I had 2 sushi hand rolls along with 2 regular sushi's -- all had rice in them. They all held after eating with no much of an urge to relieve them from the sleeve. Unfortunately, I had more vomiting at dinner after some pan fried beef, chili, and Soup. So, there is still quite a lot of volatility with the sleeve for me and I must watch what I eat. I would estimate that between the first food court experience and the one yesterday -- I must have had to vomit up over 60% or more of everything I ate -- the problem with the pressure and pain from the sleeve sometimes there is just no action left to take except to go to the toilet and let the food out to relieve the discomfort. Hopefully, at 90 days post-op -- I will have better experiences to share. Cheers to all~! Steve in Hong Kong.

Also, I don't know what size Bugle, Bogey, whatever you call those skewers they poked into your body to hold up the rest of your internal organs before they go in Laroscopically, but I have only TWO (02) scar holes to the right and left of my navel .. I just know as I was told point blank by my doctor, and he had a model of a sleeve on his desk that shows his sleeves to be about the size of a flash light hold 2 x DD batteries. Not very big .. 100 grams, or the equivalent of a typical Chinese rice bowl is all I can eat at any one sitting. How about your guys .. can someone do a metric conversion on 100 grams to ounces .. I wanna say that's less than 4 Oz. -- the capacity of my particular sleeve.

BTW -- I didn't force myself not to throw up .. just that it was not possible to even pull over as the roads in Hong Kong, most of them don't even have shoulders. So, happenstance forced me not to throw up. Had I been near a toilet .. I woulda done it just to relieve the discomfort. But having being forced not to throw up -- I know it can be done now. But also I should mention -- not throwing up was definitely NOT an option at less than 60 days post-op -- it is only a recent development that I have noticed I can successfully fight the urge to. Hopefully -- it gets gradually better as time progresses, where perhaps at 6 month or 1 year post-op -- these issues are no longer issues. That's what I'm hoping for anyways.

Thanks for all your posts and comments, and hope more people find this thread interesting. A good point was brought up .. vomiting COULD be related to eating speed and not chewing enough. Although we all have been briefed on how to eat post-op, and I do make a conscience effort into chewing thuroughly, I probably most likely don't always chew ample before swallowing, so it is worth it to discuss this, and may be put more efforts into developing new technical skill. Perhaps even putting a cooking timer on the table when eating to make certain of the chewing time and in between swallows. But like the title of the thread -- it's all about getting to know the sleeve and make the proper adjustments, so we can all have quality of life post-op. To be honest, although I am enjoying the weight-loss, I have noticed that my relationship with food has changed substantially. And not always for the better. Not over-eating or gaining weight, being more healthy is the purpose. I must admit -- a lot of the previous enjoyment of food items .. has gone away. Case in point -- we used to enjoy a single slice of pizza after-school. Now only my daughter enjoys that ... I can't and I don't. I have ordered slices along with her -- I just can't keep it down, regardless of how many time I chewed and how long I waited before swallowing bites. It is the type of food, I have noticed, that post-op -- I CAN'T enjoy anymore. And I miss that, to be honest, and do count it as a degradation of quality of my life. For those who were wondering -- I've got a surprise for ya .. I am American! LOL! I was born in Taiwan but immigrated to CA when I was just 12 years old and spent most of my adult life there .. plus 2 years in Hawaii. So, F-150's .. I know about them. I used to drive my own 4x4 pick-up in CA. Please keep your comments going. Like to hear more about how people deal with their sleeves when things get dicey after eating .. Cheers~!

Just to let you all know .. went back and got the same sushi snack again. On on the drive home, I was fighting the urge to vomit, as the sleeve was trying to eject it. But since the drive was 30 minutes non-stop, but the time we approached home, the urge to vomit went away. So, it is possible to fight it. It's a bit like holding a bar of wet soap -- it could go either way up or down. I prefer down. LOL!

Thanks, Swizzy. I've really lost dramatically. So dramatically that the ex-wife couldn't stop staring at me when I went to China 10 days ago to sign papers for the home we had to sell ... that sounds like a joke and is funny. But really happened! Temaki is Te (hand) maki (rolled) in Japanese, but can't count on every Hong Kee waiter to know his/her Japanese so we got to call them hand-rolls here. I have tried sashimi. In fact I tried it at 4 days post-op to some pretty horrifying results. Fastest way to waste fresh raw salmon. LOL! But that was 4 days ppost-op and I ate it against recommendation and diet restriction. Nowadays, I am free to eat sashimi, and I have eaten salmon sashimi and tuna sashimi without problems. The problem came when I ordered some Wagyu steak. That came up 10+ days ago for dinner in Guangzhou. Reason I remembered it was that it was an expensive dinner and it was all thrown-up by me, as it just wouldn't sit well in the sleeve. You've got to remember that the stomach .. is just a holding area for food. Digestion is done further on. So, if food doesn't sit well in the sleeve, it's not going to move down the plumbing. That's the problem and the function of vomiting. It gets rid of the un-pleasant feeling. Again, best I can describe it .. like steel ball barings in a tight tube of gym socks, just sitting there and not moving. But you can feel the weight and expansion caused by the food. Then comes the sliming, and the gagging. Then you just hang on until you get to a toilet bowl. It's mighty unpleasant, and I been having to eat more food afterwards each time eventually. By the evidence of what I had been able to hold down in the past week: 2 slices of garlic bread (French bagget type). Chewed it up. Swallowed it. Held them. Never happened before since the VSG. So, the sleeve IS showing signs of being more tolerant to different solids previously it rejected.

You know QueenBee brought up an interesting idea -- and that is that some seem to experience more vomiting than others. Whereas certain others have experienced no vomiting or need to fight the sensation to at all post-op. I have noticed these comments from other VSG members as well ... here's my theory about that. First -- it might have to do with sensitivity. Firstly, my personal thing is that I don't do well with internal organ sensitivity. I have never accepted a colonoscopy and where the scope goes down your throat that I had to go through pre-op to examine signs of reflux .. my internal organs are extra sensitive to ,these instruments. This could be a correlation to vomiting that are caused by food sensitivity post-op. But .. that's just my guess. The second possibility -- and this one you all can attest to yourself -- is the actual volume of the sleeve you end up with. I know that my sleeve post-op -- can fit roughly 100 grams or 100 cc's (that's 1/10 of 1 liter) volume worth of foods/liquids. Could it be .. that some surgeons, particularly Stateside .. are creating post-op sleeve volume that are larger than mine ? Theory being -- if there is more room -- there can be more expansion, and the pressure within the sleeve is lesser due to being more volumeous. Who knows why some are more prone to vomiting. I just know that I .. am a daily vomit-er post-op at 65 days. I dunno in reality whether to expect the vomiting to decrease, as my sleeve is used more and stretched more and becomes more volumeous thereby reducing pressure and sensitivity. But that's kind the purpose of my thread --- which is to discuss pressure within the sleeve after swallowing, irritations of grains and non-greasy dry meats and high fiber veggies to the sleeve lining, and the increase stretchability of the sleeve as time progresses, and the ability of swallowing food, holding to food within the sleeve before it moves on to the intestines. I mean -- these issues -- "they" don't tell you about at any point pre-op or post-op. To be honest -- I dunno why they don't discuss these issues more.

@ Looou -- well, the hand rolls or handroll I referred to are always made cone shape with the seaweed wrapped much like a ice cream cone. So to me hand rolls are one per order. So, that's 2 x handrolls (salmon and uni), and 2 x the regular sushi's. That's hardly 100 grams of food. There have been times past post-op and now -- that I ate sushi and had to vomit it up, due mainly the way cooked rice feels within the sleeve. Rice is just too irritating to the sleeve's lining even at this point, such that I can't eat rice as a staple ever since VSG. As said -- that's kinda like people can't eating bread in the States. You miss it. You wish you could eat it. But every time I do. It goes down, but it must come back out. LOL! @QueenBee -- I typically do drink something when I eat. Even soup. But those two calls I put into the doctor's office in Taipei was to discuss this exactly. I leave the liquids until the end. Because the idea is when you put liquids in .. it takes up all the volume already and there's no more room for solids. Whereas if you take in solids first, wait a bit -- then the liquids can follow. BUT .. to answer your question and your theory as to the frequency of vomiting .. it is definitely NOT due to my drinking AND eating at the same time. Why >? Becuz I vomit when I just eat solids and haven't had any liquids at all to wash it down. There is a very strange occurrence for me now which always precedes vomiting, and that is -- I get a gagging feeling, followed by a sensation in the sleeve that the food is just not sitting well, then I sneeze .. yeah, I suffer from chronic post-nasal drip allergy, and the food puts pressure on the eusophegus (?) then I sneeze due to some kind of irritation to the nasal cavity to due with the act of swallowing food. Very strange. Never used to happen. You know they say earthquakes can't be predicted, but I can predict my vomiting by my allergic sneeze just prior to .. all thanks to VSG. LOL!

Yes, eating too fast will cause pain and urges to vomit. Case in point -- at a French Cafe in the Chinese city of Guanzhou 10 days ago, I order the same pan fried salmon with egg plants and colored peppers 2 days apart for lunch. First lunch it ate beautifully. But it took me about 30 minutes to get done with a huge plate and little food, the salmon strip was only 180 grams. Second day came back for the same. Ate it in 20 minutes. Had to go vomit. Go figure .. The sleeve is very nice as I have lowered my BMI from an all time high last year at this time of 41 to 29 currently. But the sleeve is very volatile, at this stage anyways. I compare my old stomach as a Ford F-150 pick-up tuck. The VSG is .. a Ferrari .. sleek and small and picky as all hell can be. It will vomit and breakdown on the side of the road, making you go to toilets at a very personal altitude that makes vomiting a lot easier, if you know what I mean. LOL!

In my case, I know when I'm over-full whenever I get a allergic sneeze. Something happens when the sleeve is full up that places pressure on my sinus then I get an uncontrollable sneeze reaction. Weird!

Congrats! Definitely shows a clear difference. The most dramatic is the face, as with mine ..

Since my max is 233.5 losing 100 lbs would make me 133.5. My goal is 155lbs. I'm currently 187.5lbs. So, I'm out of the challenge. I lost 16lbs 1 week post surgery but that was due to poor caloric intake, and it was much too fast. I'm on a place about 2kgs per month or around 5lbs +/- .. that's about the quickest I want to lose.<br><br>Going 25lbs per month would be very quick weight loss pace, but that's relative. If you're 400lb or 300lbs, then it might be a sustainable pace without running into starvation issue, muscle loss, and renal problems.<br>

Day 3 I was still on liquid only.

Can't agree with scramble eggs at 6 weeks. Too irritating to the new lining to hold down without vomiting. Thank God someone mentioned chili with minced beef. This has been a source of Protein for me and something I can hold down without vomiting. The other day I had a grilled salmon with garnish of pan fried egg plant strips and yellow peppers. The salmon with skin was 180 grams (roughly 3 oz), and I ate it really slowly taking bites no bigger than a finger tip, taking over 30 minutes to finish the French style plate (all plate and hardly any food). It stayed down. Best restaurant experience post surgery (10 weeks) Then I went back the next day ordered the same exact thing. This time I ate it rather quickly with bigger bites, and developed severe stomach cramps and had to relieve the pressure which ended in vomiting. So eating slowly makes a huge difference. Trouble is post VSG, sometimes ya just get too hungry and old habits are hard to break.

This is bit unpleasant topic, but I'm 30+ days post-op and am supposed to be on the long term regular diet according to my physician's plan. However, any solid foods like pasta, rice, pizza doe -- even if I take 30 chews each bite, keep the volume of food to 1/2 cup per sitting, I'm still having trouble keeping the food down, i.e. I've got to go to the toilet and let it out via vomiting. Bit embarrassing too, but to be honest, I expected to be done with this getting used to the VSG, and letting the lining heal. I haven't experience any leaks or other problems with the surgery -- just that the new stomach doesn't seem to be having major problems with anything, except for soft, mushy, or liquid foods. With the on-going vomiting (every meal basically), I'm also having problems with keeping the nutrition and calories in having to eat more calories than recommended. The weight loss is on schedule though at around 1~2lb per week. Anyone else gone through the same type of thing out there ? Appreciate all your thoughts on this problem. Tnx~!

I started my own topic then read this thread and it's basically talking about the same thing .. yes, holding down certain foods is a problem. 30+ days out and dry tasting meats which is skinless and grease less don't stay down. Ground beef, roast beef do not stay down. Grains: pastas, rice, breads all do not stay down at this point in time. Hopefully, this will improve over time. I did try Pasta with meat sauce again, and although it did come up, it was not as revolting as was 2 weeks ago. So, the sleeve MAY BE adjusting. Not sure yet. I've noticed there are board members who have been able to eat all these things which I can hold down without problems. I've notices that some are better at controlling and avoiding vomiting. For me, the act is not so much of huge problem so long as the pain and pressure is relieved. Not that it's enjoyable, and for the moment I am a involuntary bulimic as well, having to add the calories I had to give up daily by eating more. Weight loss continues though.

Thanks for that! I can identify with the feeling and it's good that you're also around 30 days out. If you are feeling that -- I guess my feelings that I am getting must be normal. Tnx! Hopefully, in another month I will be able to eat all solids and hold them down.

Yes, I can do eat some meats like boiled chicken and most fish. Stir fried chicken seems too dried and irritates when it goes down. Some greasier pork like bacon is staying down well. Seems the common thing is if the pork is too dried it might not want to stay down. Rare beef strip is staying down, but not roast beef and thin sliced beef or ground beef. There's no way I can eat a piece of pizza and hold it. It's gonna come back up. Not that I really want to go bad diet with burgers and pizza, but I would like to be able to eat them without having to give them back.

Also, I've been doing good on solids such as cooked salmon, boiled chicken, cooked pork, medium rare steak strips. But for grains and foods with high fiber, the new reduced stomach feels like the reduced space makes for a high pressure situation for the grainy foods made from wheat and rice flour, steam riced a former stable food no longer on the menu due to upwardly movement.

Ok .. thanks for that advise. But the problem with "just don't do it!" for me is that I experience a high level of unpleasantness whenever there are solids that the new stomach doesn't agree with. The feeling is bit like someone torquing the stomach in a twisting motion, followed by tremendous pressure. Once I get these two feelings, the only relief is to release that food. There have been occasions, where I have been able to eat Pasta without meat or sauce and it didn't come up. There have been other occasions where I followed up a dinner with some Snacks and solids held. So, it seems like the new stomach has become very temperamental. To tell the truth, at first may be first week post-op, I couldn't barely throw up on demand. But I've gotten so routine to this, that it's become part of eating now. I don't think I remember a recent meal, where I had solids that I did not throw it up. So, I'm hoping someone had the same experience and knows when or how this phase will stop. Right now, the only way I can avoid this -- is to convert back to an all liquid diet, and I am behind schedule already there as I am supposed to be able to eat solids now, albeit low volume like a 100 grams per sitting. But I appreciate your input and any other inputs and advises.

I was about 230~233.8lb heaviest ever been in life around September. Pre-op I was 98.6 KG or about 217lb. 7 days post-op I was 91.4kgs (roughly 16lbs lighter). I am 30 days out, and 87kgs today which is 191.8lbs, a weight I haven't seen since about 2002~3. Previous to VSG, I relied on Phentermine and exercise binging to lose weight. Got as low as 88kgs from 98kgs in 3 months before I got married in November, 2005 on exercise and diet pills. So, I'm below that previous recent low right now. Also, just looked up the BMI chart: currently 30 days post-op: 29, officially out of obese into over-weight (max BMI 41) BODY FAT %: currently 30 days post-op: 24.9% acceptable for males. Also, FATTY LIVER: currently medium, down from heavy BLOOD PRESSURE: average: 135/85 down from 155/100