Cleo's Mom

Here's an analysis from the INDEPENDENT CBO of the REPUBLICAN HEALTHCARE PLAN (if we can call it that): Here's what the CBO said about the Republican bill back in November when they released it, courtesy the Speaker's blog. COVERING MORE AMERICANS? The House Republican bill covers just 3 million more Americans. Today, 83% of nonelderly Americans are insured – under the GOP plan, only 83% of nonelderly Americans would be insured in 2019. No change. ...... INSURANCE MARKET REFORMS? The House Republican bill does not reduce the number of people who must buy insurance on the individual market – because they’re self-employed, don’t have coverage from their employer, are lose their jobs. This segment of the market now pays the highest premiums and consumer abuses by the insurance companies. No change. ..... HOLDING INSURANCE COMPANIES ACCOUNTABLE & COVERING PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS? The House Republican bill fails to require insurance companies to end the practice of discriminating against Americans with pre-existing medical conditions. No change. The House Republican bill does not repeal anti-trust exemption for health insurance companies. No change. The House Republican bill does not include provisions to stop price gouging by insurance companies. No change. For the visual learners among us, here it is in graphic form: The Republican plan, will bring down the deficit, some. Just not nearly as much as the House Dem's plan. Looks like it's back to the drawing board for Boehner and pals. Except of course that they don't want comprehensive healthcare or insurance reform.

quote by pattygreen: What is stupid to me is that you seem to think that the government will provide a program that wont cost you or the American people anything or will actually 'save' us money:lol:! File this under: Ignore the facts when they don't support your point of view. I've said it over and over again. The CBO, and independent agency, has shown how the healthcare bill would reduce the deficit. But of course you would only believe them if they said the opposite.

quote by Pattygreen: That's because it was in the HC public option. When Obama wanted to have the gov. run HC, his plan was to get everyone on this gov. ins. eventually over time. Everyone knows this and I'm not going to go over it again. If everyone were to be on the govs. ins. plan, then they would be the ones running the show at that time. None of this is true. And you keep saying it believing that axiom that if you repeat a lie often enough people will believe it. Show me ONE thing since August 2009 on (when the real debate of the healthcare took place) that indicates that the public option would have "death panels" and that the purpose was to have everyone go on the public option so that the government could control it all. I will not accept opinions, I want facts: quote the parts of the bill that support it. Don't quote someone from the party of no.

Originally Posted by Cleo's Mom Community colleges are tax funded. Hmmmmmmm! Somebody else is paying for your kids college. Geeeshhh! If they went to public elementary and high school someone else paid. If they used public recreation, somone else paid. How come its okay for subsidy for the ones you use but not for the children of the extremely poor? Yep, and I bet your kids making $8 and hour didn't accept any government loans or pell grants to get through school. Of course they could make it on $8 and hour paying $400 per month rent and pay tuition even at a community college or trades school. Right! Pattygreen: This is not my quote and I don't know why you can't keep things straight. Not that I disagree with the quote, I don't, but you should give credit to the correct poster.

So they were protesting about possible taxes in a healthcare bill that wasn't even finalized and that they didn't even know if it would personally affect them? That certainly seems stupid to me.

Well, you give far more credit to people if you think they understood what death panel meant. I know what it meant and what Sarah Palin wanted that statement to do. Incite fear. Read this slowly. There was nothing in the healthcare bill that allowed the government to make decisions about who gets care and who doesn't. That's called the HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES. THEY MAKE THOSE DECISONS. Don't get them confused. The government is we the people and the insurance company is f*** the people.

You think the right doesn't call liberals names? Beck called Obama a racist. Limbaugh calls all liberal women (including Hillary and Nancy) feminazis. And of course it's been said and pictured here (by me and others) what the teabaggers signs have said about Obama. But it's because the conservative right just says so many stupid things based on emotion, hate & fear, I think, is the reason they are so criticized by the left. Their complaints just don't make sense. For instance: T.E.A. (from their movement) stands for Taxed Enough Already. Well, guess what? These stupid people are paying fewer federal taxes than they ever have in their life. Obama gave 25 TAX CUTS, many of which gave 95% of wage earners a tax cut. Death panels: THERE ARE NO DEATH PANELS in the healthcare bill and Sarah Palin and others know it. But it preys on people's fears and is a good media soundbite. Remember that video of people waiting in line to see Sarah Palin (at a book signing) and they were interviewed by a guy asking them questions about Sarah Palin and they had no idea what she stood for? They said she was opposed to the wall street bailout but when the reporter showed them Palin's quote where she did support it- well they said they just didn't believe it. AND THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS HERE OVER AND OVER AGAIN. WHEN THE FACTS DON'T MESH WITH YOUR OPINION YOU JUST IGNORE THEM. AND THAT'S WHAT THE CONSERVATIVES ON THE RIGHT DO AND WHY THEY ARE SO CRITICIZED.

Originally Posted by Cleo's Mom Every law abiding citizen is just one gunshot away from being a criminal. I don't agree with that statement at all. I have owned a gun for 30 years and have NEVER used it. But if someone comes into my house and threatens me or my children in any way, I wont hesitate to. Then think about it. All it takes for that law abiding citizen to become a criminal is to use that gun in a non-law abiding way. One shot. And don't think that you can just shoot anyone who enters into your home willy-nilly. They have to pose a threat and they can't be shot leaving or running away (they are no longer a threat.) Also, if that law abiding citizen's gun is played with by a minor and that minor accidently shoots and kills a playmate, then he become charged with a crime and is a criminal. Also, every gun using criminal was at one time a law abiding citizen.

The economy is issue #1. And the economy runs on money. When businesses and people aren't putting money into the economy then the government has to do it. It's an investment in our future. To get the economy jump started. Healthcare is one-sixth of our economy. Addresssing healthcare and its costs isn't just about insuring the uninsured. Keeping down cost will HELP the economy and REDUCE the deficit. Investing money in our infrastructure puts people to work and helps repair our roads, bridges, etc.. and can help build new rail transit. Investing in clean energy and green energy makes sense just from a moral perspective. But it also will create jobs and help us become less dependent on foreign oil. And help reduce our deficit because we spend so much importing foreign oil. And as we get people to work and start making things - all of these will have a positive effect on REDUCING the deficit. So, yes, you need to invest money to make money and to get things going. It's an investment in jobs, the economy and our future. AND WHEN THE ECONOMY IMPROVES THE DEFICIT GOES DOWN. Eisenhower was responsible for pushing for the modern highway system across this country. Just think what that did for interstate commerce and jobs. But I'm sure there were those who were against spending the money to do this. And I guess when you were referring to people getting a free ride, you were referring to corporations (who you said are people) getting a free ride on wall street when they had a party with our money and we had to pay for it. I agree.

Every law abiding citizen is just one gunshot away from being a criminal.

Oh, stop

Pattygreen - this is the world you want to return to: An era of tragedy for women When abortion was illegal October 21, 2005 | Pages 6 and 7 THE THREAT of Roe v. Wade, the 1973 landmark Supreme Court case that legalized abortion throughout the U.S., being overturned has never been more real. Anti-choice Catholic and documented sexist John Roberts now heads the U.S. Supreme Court as chief justice. And Harriet Miers, a right-wing Christian fundamentalist who Bush has nominated for the Supreme Court, seems destined to be the next anti-abortion justice. But even if Roe vs. Wade isn't formally overturned, the degree to which abortion is available in the U.S. today is an open question. Already, 87 percent of all U.S. counties don't have an abortion provider. After years of politicians chipping away with laws such as the federal late-term abortion ban and countless state restrictions, abortion rights have been rolled back beyond the point of real use by millions of women, particularly poor women and women of color. History shows that women have always tried to terminate unwanted pregnancies. When safe medical procedures are banned by law, they have resorted to dangerous--sometimes deadly--"back-alley" abortions. Such a world might be hard to imagine for the tens of millions of women in the U.S. who have never known a world without the right to legal abortion. A look at the horrors of illegal abortion in the years before Roe v. Wade shows that the health and welfare of women is at stake. MICHELE BOLLINGER looks back at when abortion was illegal in the U.S.--and explains why the right of women to control their own bodies is fundamental, and a precondition for gaining full equality with men. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ABORTION WAS criminalized throughout the U.S. between the late 1800s and 1973. But during that time, millions of women sought and obtained abortions anyway. Of these, tens upon tens of thousands died from illegal abortions or complications arising from them. One 1932 study estimated that illegal abortions or complications from them were the cause of death for 15,000 women each year. Current, more conservative, estimates of the death toll still stand at between 5,000 and 10,000 deaths per year. Some of these deaths were the result of the abortions themselves, but many more were from infection and hemorrhaging afterward. Because of the fear of being punished and socially ostracized, many women--and their doctors--kept their real condition a secret. The right wing has gone on an organized campaign to discredit such statistics, going as far to claim that deaths from illegal abortion were "just" a few dozen a year--and that the anecdotes of items such as coat hangers being inserted into women's bodies to cause an abortion are false. In reality, coat hangers were just one horror among many during the years of illegal abortion. If your issue is the sanctity of life, then what does this solve? Both mother and baby die? Making abortion illegal won't stop it. It will just criminalize it. Women throughout history have sought abortion. Just putting them in prison won't solve anything. Has putting drug dealers in jail stopped them? If a woman is determined to have an abortion then she will get one, illegal or not. How does having the woman die too make it better? Because the fetus always trumps the woman's life??? If it really is life that you are concerned with you will work as passionately to promote free birth control and easy access and the morning after pill (which is not an abortefacient). But it appears that you are less concerned with life than you are with punishment.

There were no arrests of ACORN employees unlike what happened in the senator's office when James O'Keefe and his 3 partners in crime were arrested. The de-funding of ACORN was the result of the Obama hating feeding frenzy and those wishing to take political cover. Let's see if those 31 in Congress who wanted to make James O'Keefe the next pulitizer prize winning journalist continue to support him. LOL

If your senators are democrats call them and tell them to support the jobs bill and healthcare reform with the provisions that the public wants and the financial reforms for wall street (small fee to get them to pay back ALL the taxpayer money) and DARE the republicans to filibuster these and then televise the filibuster. WOULD THAT BE TRANSPARENT ENOUGH FOR EVERYONE???

I do it all the time myself. I see him on MSNBC from time to time as a political commentator. I was going to write exactly what you wrote about him. Great minds think alike.

BJean - just a slight correction (no biggie) - it was Howard Dean, not John.

You've just promoted one of the arguments used by sexists to keep women "in their place" and that's that they are too emotional, can't function during their time of month, etc.. Sarah Palin was not caught off guard, she knew about and scheduled the interviews. And she came off as, well, stupid. And I think a man would have been criticized for it too. Bush was during his 8 years. He sure came off as stupid over and over again. There are books, posters, day to day calendars filled with his stupid sayings.

The following is from "Bright-Sided" by Barbara Ehrenreich: From 1979 to 2007, the share of pretax income going to the top 1% of American households ROSE by 7 points to 16%, while the share of income going to the bottom 80% fell by 7 percent. As David Leonhardt put it in the New York Times: It's as if every household in that bottom 80% is writing a check for $7000 every year and sending it to the top 1%. How did the top 1% use their ballooning weath? On high yield investments, of course, but also on a level of consumption that might have stunned even the robber barons of old. They traveled in Lear Jets, maintained multiple homes, and hired whole staffs of personal employees, including people whose job it was to advise them on the best wines and art to invest in. Looking back from 2008 a writer in the business magazine Portfolio marveled at: "the $34,000-a-night hotel rooms, the $175 gold-dusted Richard Nouveau hamburger at the Wall Street Burger Shoppe, the Algonquin Hotel's $10,000 martini on the rock (the rock in question: a jewelers-selected diamond): Conspicuous consumption didn't even begin to describe the you're-not-going-to-believe-this life style and work habits of the rapacious ubercapitalists who were replicating all over the world." These people hire people to make sure they don't pay taxes, either. And it's not like they are working for a living. They get their wealth through investments and tax breaks. The 80% at the bottom are the workers who keep this country going. And yet, it infuriates me that with the above going on, the conservative right beats up on the poor single working mom who just wants some help so she can improve her life. It just shows who they advocate for and how mean-spirited they are.

I found this article and thought it applied to a lot of posters who have problems with their doctors. I changed doctors 7 months after my surgery for issues more serious than those outlined here, but our personalities also didn't mesh. Doctor Not LIstening or Helping? When to Break Up With Your Doctor

from pattygreen:ACORN is one of those government agencies that is deceitful and corrupt. ACORN is not a government agency. It is a grassroots organization that receives federal funding just like so many others do, like faith based initiatives through various churches.

The man who did the ACORN trap and who tried to tap the phones of a U.S. Senator (A FELONY) - is: JAMES O'KEEFE. He was the darling of the republicans and they even proposed a resolution saying so. Now, those republicans are looking for cover. Read this update from dailykos: What a difference a day makes. This time last week James O'Keefe was a hero to the extreme right for producing a hoax smearing ACORN and similar operations against other social service organizations. TPM now reports he was even in the employ of Moonie Times contributor and former Drudge clown Andrew Breitbart on the day of the break in. But after being caught directing three co-conspirators in clumsy mid-espionage bugging or mucking around with the phone system in a US Senator's office, the first wave of Republicans are running for cover: O'Keefe was supposed to be the keynote speaker at a Salt Lake County GOP fundraiser on Feb. 4. But county GOP Chairman Thomas Wright told the Salt Lake Tribune: "We'll be announcing a new speaker shortly." ... Rep. Pete Olson, R-Tex., is on the defense for introducing a resolution honoring O'Keefe for exposing ACORN. He told the Hill that he doesn't condone unlawful behavior ... There were 31 cosponsors on that resolution, so you can expect Democratic challengers to use that resolution against their GOP opponents in this fall's midterm elections. Via Media Matters, the 31 sponsors of the resolution which declared that accused felon James O'Keefe was "owed a debt of gratitude by the people of the United States" are all Republicans and, oddly, over a quarter of them serve districts in Texas: Todd Akin (R-MO2), Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD6), Joe Barton (R-TX6), Rob Bishop (R-UT1), Jo Bonner (R-AL1), John Boozman (R-AR3), Paul Broun (R-GA10), Henry Brown (R-SC1), John Campbell (R-CA48), John Carter (R-TX31), Howard Coble (R-NC6), Tom Cole (R-OK4), Michael Conaway (R-TX11), John Culberson (R-TX7), Mary Fallin (R-OK5), Trent Franks (R-AZ2), Louis Gohmert (R-TX1), Kay Granger (R-TX12), Ralph Hall (R-TX4), Jim Jordan (R-OH4), Steve King (R-IA5), John Kline (R-MN2), Doug Lamborn (R-CO5), Blaine Luetkemeyer (R-MO9), Daniel Lungren (R-CA3), Kenny Marchant (R-TX24), Joseph Pitts (R-PA16), Bill Posey (R-FL15), Phil Roe (R-TN1), John Shadegg (R-AZ3), and of course Jean Schmidt (R-OH2).

Your reply to my post does not make any sense. NONE OF THESE MEN ARE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS!! THEY ARE JUST RUN OF THE MILL, ORDINARY RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS WHO WANT TO DESTROY ANYTHING PROGRESSIVE. The man who went undercover as a pimp with his undercover "prostitute" in order to trap ACORN in a "gotcha" moment was the SAME GUY who posed as a phone repairman and went into a UNITED STATE'S SENATOR'S OFFICE WITH THE INTENT OF TAPPING HER PHONES. No one was arrested in the ACORN trap, but he was arrested yesterday, along with his partners in crime, for attempting to commit a FELONY. He claims he was just acting as a concerned citizen when he did his ACORN trap. He wanted to show that ACORN does not follow the law in making loans. An investigation of ACORN followed. What he did in the senator's office is a FELONY. I'm not sure what you don't understand about this. He is a criminal and what he did is criminal and the hypocrisy is that he was portrayed as a hero and outstanding citizen when he did that to ACORN when what he is - is a common criminal. And you don't see the hypocrisy in that? He had no business being in the Senator's office or trying to tap her phones. Let's just see if the investigation shows any connections to him and his supporters on the right in all of this. Stay tuned.