Cleo's Mom

Ah, here it is: March 29, 2010 The news: several companies, including 3M, John Deere, and Caterpillar, have already announced that due to the health-care plan recently (and with incredible tumult) signed into law, they'll see raised expenses this year, which could be tough in this economic environment. But all of those companies' added expenses combined don't add up to half of AT&T's proposed problem, announced on Friday and reported by The New York Times: the telecommunications giant says they'll see a whopping $1 billion "noncash accounting charge" this year. In other words, AT&T will have $1 billion less in 2010 than in 2009, explicitly because of this bill--and such a big change in the books may mean AT&T will pass on the loss to its employees, possibly resulting in a loss of health-care benefits for retirees. April 18, 2010 House panel cancels meeting with company execs on healthcare law costs By Vicki Needham - 04/14/10 05:44 PM ET A House panel has canceled a hearing to examine the financial effects of the healthcare law on the nation's large companies. The companies asked to allow more time for provisions of the new law to go into effect before holding a hearing, House Energy and Commerce Chairman Henry Waxman and Bart Stupak, chairman of the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations wrote in a letter to subcommittee members dated Wednesday. Company representatives from AT&T, John Deere, Verizon and Caterpillar were scheduled to testify April 21 about millions in additional costs the healthcare law would create for their businesses. During preliminary interviews, representatives from the large employers said the new law could have positive effects for the companies by eventually cutting healthcare expenses, if implemented properly, according to the letter. John Castellani, president of the Business Roundtable, told committee staff that if "implemented right, the law has the potential to make employers and employees better off because it could bend the cost curve," according to the letter. Several companies commented on how the healthcare bill could help their companies. "Should the structural reforms intended to reduce the costs of delivering healthcare ultimately prove successful over time, self-insured companies like AT&T would likely benefit from such reduced costs," said Wayne Watts, senior executive vice president for AT&T. Wow! When they were told to "show us the figures" they backed down and changed their tune. And there are those who say the government lies :w00t: - IT'S CORPORATE AMERICA WHO ARE THE LIARS AND THIEVES (DOES GOLDMAN SACHS RING A BELL?)

Try to keep up. Caterpillar, AT&T have already admitted that they were wrong and the healthcare bill will save them money. Loserbob first posted about this and then I found the article that explained it. They decided not to show up and Congress and testify as to the proof about what they were originally saying about what the costs would be to them. In other words when they were told to "show me the figures" by congress, they folded like a deck of cards. :w00t: I think it's under the conservative vs liberal thread. If I feel like it I will find it.

The HC bill came back with a figure of $800 billion, and a week after it passed we found out it would cost $1.2 trillion. That's a difference of $4 billion dollars This bill is going to kill an economy that is just beginning to rally. We need to repeal it! LIE! LIE! LIE! All you offered was some neocon's opinion of what he THINKS will happen to the cost of the healthcare bill based on facts and figures from the past. Yawn. Our government uses the independent CBO as it's source and that is what I am going by. I knew you didn't have anything concrete to base this claim on. Oh, and someone from Americans for Tax Reform. Even better. LOL

We'll both be waiting a long time - since she is unable to provide proof for her healthcare costs.

I feel her pain:

Obama hasn't created any messes. His stimulus spending has helped turn this economy around. He is taking steps to reduce spending with this commission and has frozen the budgets of many offices.

to pattygreen: and while you are spending all this time on your neocon, obama bashing websites you need to give your proof and source for your claim about the real cost of healthcare. everyone on here is a witness to the fact that i have asked you to supply it or say it was a lie - many times!!! i am calling you on on this pattygreen.

With regard to Pres. Obama's handling of terrorism. He is doing a way better job than bush did. Catching more terrorist, and handling the christmas day bomber the same that bush did with the shoe bomber. bush only tried 3 in military tribunals and hundreds in criminal courts. But somehow now it is a problem. Go back and read more about this on the "hypocrisy of republicans" thread that you got locked. Republican hypocrisy - Let's start with the handling of terrorists: The republicans have been relentless in their criticism of Pres. Obama's handling of terrorists. - In 2009, we caught twice as many terrorists as did bush. - Only the terrorists released from Gitmo by bush have rejoined terrorists groups. - bush tried hundreds of terrorists in civilian courts while Pres. Obama is criticized by republicans for doing so. - bush took 10 days to respond to Richard Reed (the shoe bomber) but Pres. Obama was criticized for taking 3 days to speak about the Christmas day underwear bomber. - bush tried the shoe bomber in civilian court but Pres. Obama is criticized for wanting to try the underwear bomber in civilian court. - the republicans leaders criticized the underwear bomber being mirandized but were told on Christmas Day that the FBI had the underwear bomber in custody. They claim they didn't know the FBI would mirandize him!! The shoe bomber was mirandized within 5 minutes.

You mentioned Pres. Obama's golfing. When asked what he was sacrificing for the two wars he started, bush said he was giving up golf. Wow, what a sacrifice considering the following: "President Bush recently spent his 879th day at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, since the Supreme Court, in all its great wisdom, elevated him to the presidency. This according to NPR's "Wait, Wait Don't Tell Me," which noted that Bush broke former President Reagan's record for taking vacations from the White House." http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/1… And let's not forget that he was cutting brush in Crawford County after receiving a memo in August entitled: Osama bin Laden determined to strike within the United States" and continued reading "My Pet Goat" when we were. Now, just sit back for a minute and imagine if Pres. Obama had done this. Wow! The heads of those on the right would explode. There would be pieces of orange all over the place from Boehner alone.

You can go to all your conservative websites and cut and paste other people's blogs but that doesn't change the fact that Pres. Obama has been a great president and bush was a failure. As to campaign promises: All politicians make them. And after Obama was overwhelmingly elected, he soon found out that bush left him a bigger mess than he had anticipated and the economy was in a much more precarious condition. He took the bold steps he needed to to turn things around. Aware of the rising deficit he commissioned a bi-partisan debt reduction committee. Now - you can't have it both ways. You can't keep yapping about the deficit and then complain when some of his campaign promises can't be kept because he might have to cut services (or tax cuts or some other promise) or raise taxes on some things. I don't give a rat's a$$ if he raises taxes on gasoline or cigarettes. Talk about being petty about everything he does. We have to pay for these wars bush started. How do you propose we do that? As for that picture of Michelle Obama kissing him and some unflattering comment - do you want me to search for the picture of Angela Merkel (German pres.) cringing at bush's shoulder hug? You neocons are just so damn frustrated that he just keeps getting his agenda passed, the country is doing much better than it was when he took office and just you teabaggers, beck, limbaugh, palin and other similar losers keep yapping and harping about things no one else cares about.

Well said, BJean. Did you see the hilarious skit on the Daily Show where they showed that idiot beck, who some on here listen to, trying to tie everything Obama did to nazi Germany? beck tried to say the bank bailout was like the round up of Jews. The guy said "Are you f***ing kidding me? They came to kill the Jews. They were offering the banks $785 billion dollars". Does anyone with an IQ in the triple digits listen to the ramblings of beck? He just doesn't make any sense. And then there are those on the right, obviously frustrated with Obama's successes, trying to invent controversy. They ask: Is the oil spill Obama's Katrina? Ah, no. Duh! Is it really a good idea for the republicans to remind us of bush's failures?

I was not spouting liberal propaganda but merely repeating what Tom Horne, the man who wrote the bill, said on MSNBC this morning. I did not read about it on dailykos or huffington post. So maybe the author of this bill has some kind of intellectual "disability" rendering him incapable of summarizing his own bill. But my mistake was taking him at his word for what his intentions were for the bill and what it would do and he said it would eliminate ethnic studies. So, your argument is with him, not me. Maybe people like him need to take remedial courses in public speaking to better present their facts. He really didn't come across as being that bright. And while we're on the subject of fact checking - I'm still waiting for the list of those who wrote paper (published, I presume) that said bush had autism or down's syndrome.

And while we're asking for proof - I'm still waiting for proof from ariscus99 that there were those who wrote papers saying bush had autism or Down's Syndrome.

Great idea. And while she's doing that, I have been waiting and waiting for her to show the proof for her following "claim": from pattygreen: The HC bill came back with a figure of $800 billion, and a week after it passed we found out it would cost $1.2 trillion. That's a difference of $4 billion dollars This bill is going to kill an economy that is just beginning to rally. We need to repeal it! PROVE IT OR ADMIT IT WAS A LIE!!!

I have posted the facts of his accomplishments on here many times. It is you who ignore them and just continue to bash him. He has done an amazing job especially considering what he inherited. And he has done it in a relatively short period of time. I don't recall anyone saying that he has the answers to the world's problems, but he has elevated the opinion other countries have of us, from an all time low under bush.

What is worrisome to me is how the people in this country always have to have a group of people to target - this group is then blamed for a whole host of problems. None of my 4 grandparents were born in this country. When they came over here there was much predujice against immigrants. "No Irish Need Apply" and catholics were discriminated against. They were blamed for many things. People didn't understand their "strange" customs. The blacks were segregated in the south and kept from voting and getting jobs. Everything was fine as long as they were "kept in their place". Then the civil rights changed that and some have never gotten over that, blaming them for taking jobs from white men and the cause of all the problems. Then the women's rights movement evolved and women were blamed for taking jobs from men and the cause of many problems. Now we have Mexicans in our country who will someday represent the majority race in this country. So, of course, they are the target now. They are the cause of the problems and of course taking the jobs from the white people. This is all so reminiscent of Nazi Germany where they had to have a target for all their problems and that was the Jews. Jews were portrayed as taking jobs from the Germans and the cause of their economic woes. So, it was easy for the Germans to look the other way when the Jews were rounded up to go to "labor" camps. I think if they did a poll of white people in AZ about whether they would support rounding up all Mexicans and putting them in detention camps and sorting out their legal status later, well I think the majority would support that.

While this isn't the video I saw this morning, Tom Horne makes the same points here. I have to laugh at how he portrays it as "for their (latinos, blacks, muslims) own good". I think when we segregated the blacks, it was for their own good, too. Isn't it amazing that white men have been telling minorities and women for centuries what is for their own good.

from Ariscus99: Maybe our resident fact checker should do a little on her own claims. Still smarting from your big laundry list of neocon lies about social security being debunked in a nanosecond by me?

The new law, which was pursued by state schools Superintendent Tom Horne for several years carries provisions that prohibit classes that promote the overthrow of the United States government; promote resentment toward a race or class of people; are designed primarily for a particular ethnic group; or advocate ethnic solidarity as opposed to individualism. It appears that disallowing a class that is designed primarily for a particular ethnic group would eliminate african-american, mexican and muslim studies. Tom Horne is the man I saw on tv this morning and this is what he said. He didn't want ethnic studies. So maybe he misrepresented his bill.

I heard the man on tv this morning who wrote this bill say that is what it would do - eliminate ethnic studies. He believes that having ethnic studies promotes segregation. Another man who teaches these types of courses disagreed. I guess the man who wrote it was misspeaking then.

WOW!! Very well said. One of the best posts I've read. :w00t:

First of all, McCain's tax was on all healthcare benefits. Under this healthcare plan, it's only only the cadillac plans and the tax is on the healthcare provider. If those healthcare providers pass it on to the consumer, that's the cost of doing business with them not a broken campaign promise. All businesses pass on their added costs to the consumers. That can hardly be blamed on Obama, though I'm sure you and those on the right will try. You extrapolate to the ridiculous about not making an income to avoid income tax or being homeless to avoid property tax but somehow ridicule my point that spending on gasoline is discretionary :w00t:.

If law enforcement has probable cause and a warrant who is going to stop them from going into a mosque, synagogue, or church? And since when don't they stop a 30 something Muslim looking man before he boards an airplane? I was under the impression all passengers passed through checkpoints. I don't have a problem with people being checked at airports. I haven't seen anyone in the media say they have a problem about this now. But do you see the slippery slope that the law in Arizona has caused? Now, in addition to this law about stopping people and asking for proof of citizenship, there is a law being considered in the state to ban ethnic studies in the schools. No more african-american studies, no more latino studies, no more islamic studies. Don't you think it benefits all of us to learn about the other cultures who come here as well as for them to learn about our history? When we learn about each other doesn't that promote harmony for living amongst each other? First the textbooks in Texas, now this.

The tax on the cadillac plans would only affect those plans that are like over $28,000 for a family (more for unions) and they don't take effect until I think 2014. Now, unions negotiate for these benefits. The tax is actually on the healthcare provider who will likely pass it on to the consumer. However, the unions negotiate their contracts. Do you really think they're not going to ask for more in salary if they pay a tax on the amount of their benefit that exceeds this limit? Of course they are. And they'll still have great healthcare coverage. As far as cigarette and gasoline taxes - Obama never promised not to raise those. He was talking about payroll and capital gains taxes. Taxes on the money your earn and invest, not on discretionary spending.

Health care reform negotiations: Republican Senator Kyl* (Arizona) criticized democrats for negotiating for healthcare behind closed doors. But now that democrats and republicans are to be on tv for the negotiations he said: well, you know some of these negotiations need to take place behind closed doors. *You may recall that during the senate healthcare debates last year Sen. Kyl said he didn't know why maternity care was in the health bill because he didn't need it. Re: healthcare debate Seems like Boehner was complaining about not getting input on the healthcare debate and not having them televised. Well, he was invited to a bipartisan healtcare summit next week and now he's worried about the size of the room, whether there will be tv cameras and whether it is a "set up". Are you kidding me?? The size of the room, a set up and tv cameras?