Cleo's Mom

She posted it before and I refuted it before. Yawn. :thumbup: And if you don't like my cut and pastes then don't read them. But I suspect they hit the target which is why you think they're tripe.

Of course, all this makes sense. But the neocons would rather pick on the poor. All of these cuts would come from areas heavy with lobbyists. The poor don't have anyone to speak for them, so it makes them easy targets. Close offshore tax havens? That is heresy to the big, fat, greedy corporations. Or allow Swiss banks to turn over their financial records so we can see how they are cheating us? I wish you could vote here. You make a lot of sense.

Those of us who can afford to pay for healthcare, liberal or not, do. Those who cannot get some help. Big deal. Geez. This is just more of your same old same old BS.

This example is so typical of the selfish attitude by many we see who are just against everything. It's an attitude that "I have mine (and I deserve it) and I don't care about anyone else and it doesn't affect me". UNTIL IT DOES. What happened to Obama's Armageddon? Mon May 17, 2010 at 02:06:01 PM PDT I guess the headline of this story could have been: I was against health care reform until my son got sick and now i'm for it. "I did not support any sort of government sponsored healthcare reform... and as it turns out, I will be one of those who benefits the most from it". Last year, a $1 million lifetime cap on health care expenses meant nothing more than fine print on an insurance policy to Jim Bucher. "I never thought I'd hit that," Bucher said. "Who's going to spend a million dollars?" That was before his 6-year-old son, Landon, was diagnosed with leukemia last July. What followed were hospital stays that lasted weeks at a time, expensive chemotherapy drugs and a bone marrow transplant at Duke University Hospital. Landon has now accrued about $700,000 in medical expenses, and there are still some hefty outstanding bills. For Jim Bucher and his wife, Patty, health care reform can't get here fast enough. The act signed by President Barack Obama in March eliminates lifetime caps from health insurance policies. // snip ...."It's turned my life upside-down," said Bucher, a mortgage loan officer. It's also given the Virginia Beach resident a new perspective on health care reform. Before, he didn't really think government should get involved. "The way it was presented, it seemed like a negative thing. I figured, 'I have insurance, so I don't need to worry about it.' " Now he's finding out just how critical the new law will be to his family. For one thing, the label of "pre-existing condition" that his son now carries cannot be used to deny him insurance coverage or charge him prohibitive rates. That provision starts Sept. 23 for children and in 2014 for adults. //// For the Buchers, the past 10 months have been an education on the expense of medicine and the complexity of insurance billing. An e-mail Bucher recently sent to friends and family telling them about their latest fundraiser read: "Soon, with the recent Healthcare Reform, the 'cap' on insurance coverage will no longer be allowed - ironic, as I initially did not support any sort of government sponsored healthcare reform... and as it turns out, I will be one of those who benefits the most from it." /// much more dailykos There are so many examples of the attitudes of republicans only being changed after a PERSONAL experience with some catastrophe, healthwise or something else. Take cheney, for example. If his daughter were not a lesbian, what do you think his attitude would be regarding gays? He would want them lined up and shot at sunrise. It's a shame that it often has to become personal for some people to wake up. That's the difference between the democrats and republicans in congress. The democrats can see the suffering/problems of people outside of their family. For the republicans, if it doesn't affect them, they don't care.

Why I Am A Liberal by HurricaneDean (writer), September 09, 2008 A Liberal Responds to Right Wing Opinions. Recently, I read an opinion article on the online newspaper, Broowaha.com. The article claimed that if progressive liberals ruled America they would, "ban religions, our lifestyles, morals, and recourse for action...they would have the power to control what you read, what you watch, what you eat and consume. A giant, liberal government would make sure that books of discourse be conveniently unavailable, pornography continuously pumped into your house to keep you dumb...so dumbed down they forgot what individuality and "free thinking" is. Alas there would also be no church to attend. The government would have you worship the planet and those that provide you with everything. There would be no choices in religion that we enjoy today." The author goes on and on with his liberal apocalyptic worldview. Of course, any first year political science student would know that the opinion this author has formed is one that is completely antithetical to the political philosophy to liberalism and a liberal government. Least we forget, our Founding Fathers were liberal democrats. (See my previous article, If George Washington Ran for President in 2008.) The text book definition for those, including myself, that believe in the political philosophy of liberalism is: "a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of man, and the AUTONOMY of the INDIVIDUAL and standing for the PROTECTION of POLITICAL and CIVIL LIBERTIES." Liberals celebrate the "autonomy of the individual." That is why we openly accept people regardless of their race, religion and sexual orientation. Regardless of whether they are a capitalist or a socialist. Regardless of their political beliefs. We may not always agree, but the very notion that "books of discourse be conveniently unavailable" is a slap in the face to the liberal tenet in "standing for the protection of political and civil liberties." The image this Broowaha.com author attempts to draw is in direct contradiction to liberalism. Rather, the author attempts to creates a picture best represented as a strange hybrid of a communist and fascist dictatorship. The fact is, progressive liberals dislike leftist communist dictatorships every bit as much as radical right wing theocracies, monocracies and fascist dictatorships. Because all these forms of government deny (again) "the autonomy of the individual" and fail to protect the political and civil liberties of the populace. The Broowaha.com article seems to falsely equate liberalism with socialism and then leaps to some strange repressive leftist world (like a perverted communist dictatorship) that denies political and civil liberties. The opinion piece seems to deliberately paint a false picture of progressive liberals in classic Orwellian fashion. Of course, people have a right to their own opinions, just not to their own facts. To some, opinions are more like beliefs and impressions, without any actual knowledge. Under their logic, I could claim that it is my opinion that John McCain is a closet homosexual that has lived his entire life on the down-low with Larry Craig, without producing a single fact to support such a claim. All I would need to do is claim, "This is just my opinion," and I would be free and clear of all moral implications. However, the fact is, unless I had some actual knowledge of such a claim, my opinion would be nothing more than either ignorance or slander. Actually, that was a funny example, but not the best analogy of this whole fact verse opinion issue. If I said an apple tree produced pears, you would obviously see my mistake. Apple trees produce apples. Yet, the Broowaha.com article claimed a liberal government would produce repression of individual, political, and civil liberties. The author is thus claiming it is his opinion apple trees will produce pears. Therefore, the only conclusion one can draw is that the author is either ignorant of apples and pears, or is slandering the fruit. Over and over again, we hear Republicans warning us that liberals (like myself) are socialists that are attempting some grand scheme similar to the most oppressive communist dictatorships. Over and over again we hear the right wing claim liberals will impose a big government that will ban their religious beliefs. I find these comments to be offensive and a complete mischaracterization of progressive liberal beliefs. For example, every progressive liberal in the U.S. I know (and I have known many working as an environmental and human rights activist for over twenty years) believes in some balance between socialism and capitalism. Not the fabricated black and white picture most right wingers like to paint. For seven years, I was a partner in two organic cotton and hemp clothing companies. Certainly one must say that I am one of the many capitalist that supports a balance between capitalism and socialism. Even communist China is coming around to that understand. And remember, COMMUNISM is NOT LIBERALISM. Communism denies "the autonomy of the individual." and does not, "stand for the protection of political and civil liberties." Most progressive liberals are of the opinion that a fine balance between socialism and capitalism will lead to a more perfect union. For example, the U.S. ranks 37th in the world in health care because we have a capitalist based health care system. That means that 36 other nations, using some form of a socialist based health care system, are doing a better job of providing care to their citizens. Let alone protecting their general welfare. In the U.S., instead of having doctors decide who gets health care, we have corporate bureaucrats sitting in their ivory insurance towers making health care decisions for us. There should be no surprise that the administrative costs in a socialist health care system averages around 5%, while under a capitalist health care system it is around 20 to 25% (depending on your Big Brother insurance company.) If you take that much money out of the system for corporate administrators then obviously health care is going to deteriorate. And that is what we have today; a deteriorating capitalist styled health care system in which a small percentage of our populace are getting fabulously rich while ever growing millions of Americans are being denied health care. The facts are on the side of socialized medicine and that is why progressive liberals support it. One only needs to look at the standard of living and human development index to see why we are ranked 37th in the world. The U.S. ranks 4th in GDP, yet it is 92nd in distribution of wealth. Certainly, 5% of our population lives better off than anywhere else in the world. Unfortunately, 25% of our population lives worse off than the average citizen livinig in countries like Greece. The U.S. now has distribution of wealth ratio simular to nations like Guinea-Bissau, Dominican Republic and Madagascar. For those that believe in a completely capitalist system with no social balances these facts are perfectly acceptable. However, to progressive liberal Americans like myself, we know we can do better. After all, we liberals actually believe in, "progress and the essential goodness of man." I would additionally challenge anyone to find a main stream liberal organization promoting the abolition of religion, books, free speech or capitalism. I have been a member of a few secular organizations over the years like, People for the American Way and the Secular Society. Just because I do not wish my taxes to propagate other folks myths and false gods, that does not mean I wish to ban religion. In the U.S., I've never met an atheist that supported the banning of religion. Although, I am sure there are some that believe in this crazy idea, it certainly is not an opinion supported by any main stream secular organization. And, more important, the thought of banning religion would be again antithetical to liberalism. In an ironic twist, on the same week this opinion piece was posted, some bloggers attempted to spread a false banned book list from Republican Vice President candidate Sarah Palin. Apparently, the latest reports on this unfolding issue is that the book list is bogus, but then Mayor Sarah Palin did inquire about banning books at the local library. However, the Liberian pushed back and was subsequently fired by then Mayor Palin. A community outcry eventually reinstated the local librarian. It is reasonable that a nation as great as ours would have vastly differing opinions. Clearly, in the liberal democracy created by our Founding Fathers, it is perfectly acceptable to express opposing opinions. I suspect the debate over the virtues of socialism and capitalism will continue well past my existence. Even Republicans support socializing capitalism when it fails. One only need to look at the recent sub-prime crises and this weeks announcement of another government bailout of Fanny May and Freddy Mac. What the proper balance of these socialism and capitalism looks like will always be a matter of opinion. However, whether John McCain is gay or not, or an apple tree produces pears, is really a matter of fact. Just like the definition of liberalism. Had the author of this Broowaha.com article stated that if the U.S. elected a communist government, it would ban religion, free speech, and do away with capitalism, we would all nod our heads understandingly. That is what communist dictatorships do. However, liberals, like our Founding Fathers, would never do that. The Broowaha.com article was every bit an insult to our Founding Fathers as it was to modern progressive liberals like myself. After reading the article, I was prompted to respond. Much of the above thoughts come out in my comments to the author. I find myself asking, was this author completely ignorant in what liberals believe? Or, was this author intentionally misleading his readers? Was he intentionally mischaracterizing liberal philosophy in order to create a false evil distortion of liberals? To demonize his political opponents in order to create doubt and fear in those that do not actually know the meaning of words like liberal and conservative? And if the later is actually true, would that not be oh so ironic? The guy that claims morality would go down the drain if we elected a liberal, was intentionally lying to you. Intentionally telling a string of falsehoods. I may be a liberal secular, humanist now, but I was raised a born again Christian. And I do remember, "Thou Shall Not Lie," is still one of the Ten Commandments. I am a liberal because I am guided by our Founding Fathers, reason, and the pursuit of truth. But, that is just my opinion. Dean Walker

leroyspuds- I have a few more examples: Republicans Slowly Removing American Freedoms Posted on May 9th, 2010 by iwaller Republicans for years have been slowly taking away Americans’ right to privacy and civil liberties, as they spit on the U.S. Constitution by passing discriminatory laws and giving sweeping surveillance and the right to search any American, at any time, without court order, for all American citizens. The Patriot Act and FISA were just the beginning for Republicans to strip the rights of U.S. Citizens. Now Republicans are attempting to racial profile Americans and remove Americans’ right to U.S. Courts of Law and American’s citizenship. From Republican George W Bush and Republican Dick Cheney’s Patriot Act and FISA, to Arizona’s punitive approach to immigration by Arizona’s Republican Governor Jan Brewer’s anti-immigration bill to would be Republican Joe Lieberman (who claims he is an Independent) and Republican Mass. Senator Scott Brown’s proposed bill to give the government more power by taking away U. S. Citizenship of Americans and to other Republicans who want to deny Miranda Rights to U.S. Citizens!First Amendment – Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Fourth Amendment – The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1 – All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Below are 4 examples of continuing Republicans’ blatant efforts to take away Americans’ constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties: Point 1: Joe Lieberman and Republican Scott Brown’s new law called the Terrorist Expatriation Act, supported by Republican Sen. John Cornyn and Republican Sen. John Kyl, gives complete constitutional power to the U.S. State Department to determine if any U.S. Citizen is affiliated with a terrorist organization allowing Americans’ citizenship to be removed. It allows the U.S. State Department to treat constitutionally protected American citizenship like an administrative matter. On the surface, fighting terrorism is of great national interest, but overreacting and overreaching by Lieberman and Brown based on the recent successful capture of would be terrorist Faisal Shahzad not only violates the Constitution of the United States, it further chips away at the rights of all Americans. This bill applies to any and all American citizens before due process and before any convictions. Have Americans noticed each time there is an attempted terrorist attack Republicans rush to take away more freedoms of all Americans. Rather than supporting the efforts of Homeland Security, the CIA, FBI and police agencies, Republicans clearly demonstrate their lack of faith in those who keep America safe. The irony is, the system worked in capturing Faisal Shahzad! No one was tortured. No one’s civil rights were violated. No one’s privacy was violated. And the suspect is cooperating. Federal, state, and local authorities did their jobs; the public was alert, but did not panic, the public was responsible, and not terrified, no one was killed, no one was hurt, and it took less than three days for the suspect to be captured. If Republicans conspire to change America because of, in this case, one single failed bomb plot, they are aiding and abetting the enemy by advancing the terrorist’s goals and caving into the fear-mongering Republicans have authored for the past decade. Point 2: Arizona Republican Gov. Jan Brewer’s punitive anti-immigration law (SB 1070) compels police officers to ask for proof of legal status whenever they have an ill-defined “reasonable suspicion” that someone they have stopped for some other purpose is an illegal alien. This Republican law clearly forces police to use skin color, accent or limited proficiency in English as the basis for ‘suspicion’ and it invites racial profiling. The law compels police to search for undocumented immigrants based on an ill-defined “reasonable suspicion” of illegality. This law not only poisons police relations with immigrant communities, it is an attempt to preempt federal immigration laws, and substantially violates the U.S. Constitution. The privileges and immunities clause of the 14th amendment says, “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States.” Then there is Republican Rep. Debbie Riddle of Texas who said “I’m really tired of political correctnessand so are my constituents and I think the folks of Texas are to. The reality is I’m also tired of hyphenated Americans.” What Riddle is really saying is I’m really tired of Hispanic-Americana, Asian-Americana, African-Americana, Jewish-Americana, Gay-Americans. This is a typical Republican response demonstrating white, arrogant racism, in this case against Latinos, which is what the Republican Party stands for, only white Americans. It is unthinkable that in the 21st century, a Latino or anyone with ‘dark skin’ could be stopped and asked to see his or her papers. Imagine our Latino veterans returning from Iraq or Afghanistan, having fought for our liberties overseas and being asked for their papers to prove they belong in the United States! Undocumented Latinos have joined our armed forces to fight for their adopted country. Never before in our modern history has an American government purported to give police the power to stop someone because of their appearance (race) and then require the stopped person to prove a negative on the spot, namely, that he or she is not in the US illegally. Point 3: Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) “I want to stop reading these guys their Miranda Rights”, in response to the recent arrest of Faisal Shahzad’s bombing attempt in New York. Republicans immediately began complaining that even though Shahzad is an American citizen, authorities should deprive him of his Miranda rights. Republican Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said that Mirandizing Shahzad would be “a serious mistake,” Republican Rep. Peter King (R-NY) said, “Did they Mirandize him? I know he’s an American citizen but still.” Independent (Republican) Sen. Joseph Lieberman (I-CT) suggested that Congress should perhaps create a process to strip “American citizens who choose to become affiliated with foreign terrorists” of their citizenship and Republican Lindsey Graham stated he wholeheartedly agreed with his colleagues and wanted to write legislation that would allow authorities to deprive them of their rights. Florida Republican Dan Fanelli is advocating racial profiling at Florida and other US Airports. Then there is Republican Rep Peter T. King of New York, the ranking Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee, who said he was troubled by the rush to charge Mr. Shahzad as a civilian. “In these kinds of cases, the first preference should be a military commission because you can get more information,” he said. As Matt Yglesias notes, “You can’t have a system where a cop comes up to me and says ‘you’re a terrorist, therefore you have no citizenship rights, therefore I’m putting you under arrest and you don’t get any due process and now it’s off to jail with you — no rights, no warning.” “And the whole reason cops Mirandize suspects is that if you don’t, you risk having your evidence thrown out of court. If you gather all the information before Mirandizing, you could be throwing the whole thing into doubt.” Does Graham really want to make all of the United States into the equivalent of a battlefield in Pakistan? Americans should be mindful that Republicans cannot take rights from one American citizen without risking the rights of every American citizen. Miranda rights apply to everyone in the territory of the US, citizen, foreign resident and visitors, or anyone who resides in the United States. Republicans, as much as they want, cannot legislate away the Miranda rights of anyone charged with a crime. Republicans are under the mistaken impression that Mirandizing a suspect grants special rights, when all it does is inform someone of existing rights. Interestingly enough, Republicans were silent when the nine white Christian Hutaree militia terrorists had their Miranda rights read. Republicans never advocated throwing out constitutionally guaranteed American rights when Timothy McVeigh reigned down terror in Oklahoma City. Terrorists have been successfully tried in U.S. Courts: Richard Reid, Zacharias Moussaui, Ramzi Yousef, Omar Abdel Rahman, Bryant Neal Vinas, Mohammed Jabarah, Shahawar Matin Siraj, Mohammed Junaid Babar, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. The Military tribunals Republicans continue to push over U.S. Legal jurisprudence have only tried 3 people and 2 have already been freed from prison; David Hicks served 9 months and released Salim Ahmed Hamden now free, and Ali Al Bahlul who is still in prison. This is what Lieberman and Brown are supporting! A Bush Administration document in 2008 cites “319 convictions or guilty pleas in terrorism or terrorism-related cases arising from investigations conducted primarily after September 11, 2001.” Between those convicted of terrorism-related crimes (150) and individuals with ties to international terrorism convicted of other crimes (like obstruction or perjury–the total is 240), 390 people have been sent to prison using our U.S. Justice and civilian courts. The list of terrorists convicted itself is interesting in its own right. When Republicans seek such radical change to America’s legal judicial system and from the letter and spirit of the U.S. Constitution, they betray upholding their oath to defend and protect that great document and the rights it affords all American citizens. Point 4: Republican George W Bush and Dick Cheney passed the Patriot Act into law on October 24, 2001 just 45 days after the September 11 attacks, The USA PATRIOT Act broadly expanded law enforcement’s surveillance and investigative powers and represents one of the most significant threats to civil liberties, privacy and democratic traditions in U.S. history. This act gave sweeping search and surveillance authority to domestic law enforcement and foreign intelligence agencies and eliminated the checks and balances which had been the difference between the free world and the suppressed. This act continues to threaten Americans’ fundamental freedoms by giving the government the power to access medical records, banking, financial and tax records; information about the books one buys, it authorized the use of “sneak and peek” search warrants giving law enforcement the power to break down any American’s door at any time of the day or night and conduct unconstitutional searches and seizures; searching one’s home or business in secret without telling the owner. It allowed wiretaps for any suspected violation of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, and offers possibilities for the Government to spy on and monitor any computer user’s searches, e-mails and in fact record every stroke on any computer. ALL of the provisions of the Patriot Act do not require a court order. The Patriot Act eliminated Government accountabilitybutfreely eliminated privacy rights for individual Americans. It created more secrecy for Government activities, making it extremely difficult to know about actions the Government are taking. Then there is the Republican sponsored Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) which allows for increased surveillance of phone calls of law abiding Americans. FISA repealed legislation enacted in the 1970s that prohibited this type of pervasive surveillance of Americans. The one common denominator of Republicans is simply is a grasp for power by the government, particularly over the judicial branch represents “the looming sacrifice of civil liberties at the altar of national security.” The Republican agenda for American citizens is to continue to whittle away at the very freedoms guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution. They use ‘suspected’ terrorism as the mechanism for taking away these rights. At every opportunity Republicans continue to encroach on the privacy and free speech, challenge habeas corpus and introduce and eliminate lawful protections established 200 years ago, all under the guise of ‘security’. In Conclusion: All the aforementioned points clearly violate the U.S. Constitution: They violate the Fourth Amendment, which says the government cannot conduct a search without obtaining a warrant and showing probable cause to believe that the person has committed or will commit a crime; They violate the Fourth Amendment by failing to provide notice (even after the fact) to persons whose privacy has been compromised. (Notice is also a key element of due process, which is guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment); They violate the First Amendment’s guarantee of free speech by prohibiting the recipients of search orders from telling others about those orders, even where there is no real need for secrecy and they violate the First Amendment by effectively authorizing the FBI to launch investigations of American citizens in part for exercising their freedom of speech; The violate the Fourteenth Amendment depriving American citizens due process of law and their right to equal protection under U.S. law. Republican Sen. Senator Christopher S. Bond recently stated “We’ve got to be far less interested in protecting the privacy rights of these terrorists than in collecting information that may lead us to details of broader schemes to carry out attacks in the United States,” When Republican Eric Cantor recently bloviated about the Obama Administration being complacent amid warning signs about terrorism after another failed attempt, Americans must remember this comes from a Republican under the Bush/Cheney Administration which was so incomprehensibly incompetent as to allow the worst ever terrorist attack on American soil even after receiving at least 10 warnings about the foreboding 9/11 attacks that Pres. George W. Bush ignored and then lied about. These are Republicans keeping America safe! They are Republicans who want America’s vote. Republicans cannot support the U. S. Constitution only when it suits their political views and pick and choose from those Amendments, cafeteria-style, to support their agenda of taking away freedoms from all Americans, regardless of political persuasion. During all of the aforementioned, teabaggers have been silent! For a group ready to overthrown their own United States Government and remain silent on the most basic freedoms of the U.S. Constitution, only gives credit their only failed complaint is simply about race. “Don’t tread on me”, “My gun is unloaded, this time”, Socialism, Communist, and all their other protests have no legitimate merit as they continue to carry the water for Republicans in helping to take away the rights of a free society. When Republicans and their Tea Party shout “return to the Constitution” they do not really mean it, which is another reason they have no credibility. What they really mean is, get another ‘white Republican man’ in the White House! America is in serious risk of crossing a line that cannot easily be undone. Republicans are about to hammer the final nail into the coffins of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. If hard working, taxpaying Americans do not speak out, if we exchange our liberties for the illusion of security, then we forfeit the very ideals that make America great. The concepts of individual liberty and equal justice that this nation was founded upon will be forsaken and we will join the ranks of dozens of other nations whose freedoms have been forfeited for the sake of the power and the forfeit of freedom and democracy. As Benjamin Franklin said: “Those who would surrender their liberty for security deserve neither”. Arbitrary government is what men have been sacrificing to overcome for the past millennium. Republicans are a throwback to the despotism of an earlier age; they do not serve the interest of liberty, justice and freedom of the American people. America for Purchase

Really? The following scenario is something that has been endorsed and proposed on these boards: April 18, 2010 Conservatives Want to Go Back to the Golden Age of the 1880s It took the Republican Party sixty years of dedicated effort to make the word “liberal” radioactive in some parts of the United States. In less than half that time they’ve also done a pretty good job of making “Republican” just as disliked, associated as it is with the politics of wretched excess, fetishizing ignorance, bowing to K street lobbyists, and diaper-wearing-toe-tapping-lesbian-bondage sexual hypocrisy. So lately conservatives, and especially the most hard right wing of conservatives, have been on the lookout for other terms they can use rather than the dreaded “R” word when describing themselves. Some of them have jumped on board the Glenn Beck self-promotion tour. Considering that it’s an artificial movement generated around a cheap media persona, declaring yourself a supporter of the Tea Party is a bit like being a proud member of a Monkees Fan Club (and you don’t even get to hear “Last Train to Clarksville”), but hey, it plays better than being a part of the George W. Bush legacy. Other conservatives have jumped in a different direction and declared that they’re really “small government Libertarians.” Only they don’t seem to understand what Libertarian actually means. Take for example this article in which Jacob Hornberger anoints 1880 as the peak of America’s Libertarian golden age. Let’s consider, say, the year 1880. Here was a society in which people were free to keep everything they earned, because there was no income tax. They were also free to decide what to do with their own money—spend it, save it, invest it, donate it, or whatever. People were generally free to engage in occupations and professions without a license or permit. There were few federal economic regulations and regulatory agencies. No Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, welfare, bailouts, or so-called stimulus plans. No IRS. No Departments of Education, Energy, Agriculture, Commerce, and Labor. No EPA and OSHA. No Federal Reserve. No drug laws. Few systems of public schooling. No immigration controls. No federal minimum-wage laws or price controls. A monetary system based on gold and silver coins rather than paper money. No slavery. No CIA. No FBI. No torture or cruel or unusual punishments. No renditions. No overseas military empire. No military-industrial complex. As a libertarian, as far as I’m concerned, that’s a society that is pretty darned golden. Now, doesn't that sound like what some on here would like to go back to? But read on as to what life was REALLY like back then. Ah, the 1880s. I can hear people getting wistful from here. A golden age in which people kept all that they earned. Of course, what they earned in the absence of those debilitating minimum wage laws could be nothing more than worthless tokens from the company store. What they earned from twelve hours of work seven days a week could be actually be a bigger debt to the company that sent you into a mine or factory and made you pay for the wear on your tools, the water you drank, the fuel for your lamp, even the blasting powder you used. Still, a lifetime of debt wasn’t so bad in a golden age without OSHA and its safety laws, since lifetimes could be quite brief. Mining accidents didn’t kill a piddling 29 men, they killed thousands every year. Over 3 miners out of every 1,000 died on the job each year (twice the rate of Great Britain with it’s freedom-robbing concern for safety). But miners were pikers compared to folks on the railroad. Trainmen fell at a rate that made each year of work roughly equal to the risk of being among the troops on D-Day. Now that’s freedom you can feel (well, briefly). It was an age where any construction project worth its salt could measure progress by body count and factory workers were privileged to know that they really were valued far less than the machines they tended. And death wasn’t all that this golden age had to offer! It was an age when American workers could look forward to the liberation of being disabled for life, and know that they wouldn’t be burdened by the crushing burden of worker’s compensation or government aid. Any laborer making it to to retirement would find… well, whatever they had laid aside for themselves, assuming they were paid in actual money and that they were cagey enough to hide it somewhere their employer couldn’t “borrow” it. Meaning that a large percentage got to experience the invigorating freedom of starting a second career as a beggar after decades of crippling repetitive work, breathing toxic fumes, and exposure to corrosive chemicals made them unable to continue to hum hi-ho at their old tasks. Well over half of America’s senior citizens basked in the autumnal liberty of living in poverty. It was a golden age without labor laws in which only 5% of people faced the awful restriction of an 8 hour work day while 3 times that many were blessed with a workday that was 12 hours or longer. Many industries, breweries for example, had a standard workday of 15 hours. And with all the extra freedom of that age, many children were able to experience the blessings of back-breaking labor starting every day by the time they reached the age of 10, with more than a third generating freedom dollars before they turned 15. Of course, that wasn’t hard since thiswas a golden age of few public schools. Except it wasn’t. Public education was common across the country, even in remote communities. Even the tiniest frontier village rarely went long without a school, many states had organized school districts, and in a good number of areas the ratio of teachers to students was actually higher than in our own socialistic era. Perhaps what Hornberger meant to say was that there were few schools available to minorities. In many areas minorities lived with “compulsory ignorance,” as they were not only excluded from public schools, but discouraged (often violently) from seeking education. That accounts for a literacy rate of less than 40% among African-Americans in 1880. As laws changed and more schools became available for all, that rate grew by more than 30% over the next three decades. However, white literacy remained about the same — not surprising since whites were already suffering from those socialistic public schools well before 1880. It truly was a golden age. One in which, thanks to that lack of nasty safety requirements and the troublesome health organizations, the average lifespan was all the way up to 40! An age in which, unfettered by the shackles of regulations on clean water and Hitler-like restrictions on sewage, 50,000 Americans died of cholera. An age in which parents could experience the ultimate freedom endowed by watching 1 child in 5 die in infancy, and 1 out of 3 fail to reach adulthood. Those numbers are for white Americans. Minorities experienced even more of the freedom that comes from burying your children. It truly was a golden age where there were “no immigration controls” as long as, you know, you were white and European. Oh, and wealthy. Otherwise, you were subject to laws like the Chinese Exclusion Act, or regulations that allowed anyone to be denied admission on the basis of poverty. Once you were in, you could love the freedom from Jim Crow laws, and the liberty that came with being denied to right to vote, or the ability to protect yourself from abuse. Of course Hispanic, Black, and Asian-Americans were all stimulated by the freedom that comes from having your home burned, your community ransacked, your wife and daughters raped, your belongings stolen, and your body left to turn as “strange fruit” in trees that sprouted across the country. All without un-American interference by the government. There’s no freedom like the freedom that comes when you aren’t forced to endure a trial by a jury of your peers and can get on with more expedited forms of justice. It was a golden age when the last bands of Native Americans still struggling along under the illusion that they were free, were invited into the real liberty that is life on the reservation. And an age where they got to see the lands their ancestors had occupied for centuries or tens of centuries handed over for destruction. Imagine the liberty you get from seeing your lands taken away, your children beaten for speaking their own language, your religious practices used as an excuse for slaughter, and your entire culture erased. A golden age, free from money-grubbing FEMA, where 400 people could die in a snow storm… then 400 more could die in the next. An age when Florida didn’t need no stinking assistance in picking up the thousands who died in hurricanes and Midwestern states laughed off the hundreds who died in tornadoes — all without warning from a communist government weather bureau. An age where dams could be built without concern for any damn fish living in the water, or any damn people living downstream. An age where you were free to inhale the asbestos that wafted from factories and the mercury fumes that steamed from metal refineries. And free to see the interesting effects such exposures had on your offspring. An age without communist limits on commerce or immoral government tests, where thousands of Americans each year died from tainted food. Where you didn’t need no stinkin’ license to hand out medicines. An age free from the horrors of the FDA where parents could feel good about using a childrens’ cough remedy laced with opium, cocaine, formaldehyde, and wood alcohol. An age when nobody told us how much lead we could have in our water, or how much soot we could have in our air. An age where the injured and elderly had the God-given right to starve. It was a golden age of rights for women in which… oh, wait. Sorry. I forgot for a moment that women don’t count when measuring freedom. Good thing, since in 1880 they couldn’t vote, were excluded from many occupations, faced restrictions on their ownership rights, and were often treated as the property of their husbands. Naturally, their reproductive rights consisted of the right to reproduce — or die trying. Of course, what Hornberger was likely envisioning was the flip side of all this liberty. The freedom of being a rich in a society where those with money enjoyed tremendous advantage. The freedom that factory owners and robber barons enjoyed in treating workers as they wanted, employing private armies to beat or kill those who opposed them, and indulging any whim in the sure knowledge that a large enough bribe could smooth things over. The good news for Jacob is that it’s not too late. It doesn’t require a time machine and a trip to the 1880s to experience all the joys of this golden age he so longs for. You can reach this land of paradise with a couple of flights and a short boat ride. It’s called Somalia. The truth is, there are real Libertarians out there, people who place a very high value on individual rights and who believe this government — like most every government — too often interferes with those rights. Of course, actual Libertarians realize that for individual rights to have any meaning, they require the presence of a body that can ensure those rights. They know that freedom can’t be maintained in an absence of information, and that there must be agencies that create the transparency needed for effective individual action and ensure there are consequences to dishonesty. Real advocates of the free market realize that term has no meaning unless the market is free from coercion and the law is not defined by “might makes right.” They know that individual freedoms are incompatible with a system where corporations are treated as super-citizens (unlike those who supported the recent supreme court ruling on this) and that Libertarianism requires that workers be more valued that abstract entities that live only on paper. The difference between actual Libertarians and Republicans hiding from their tarnished name is quite easy. Actual Libertarians are concerned about the freedom of individuals. Conservatives use Libertarian as a code word meaning “I want to continue to enjoy all the privileges I do now, but I don’t want to share them with you and most of all I don’t want to pay any taxes.”(SO TRUE!!!) Push come to shove, they’re happy to abbreviate that to “Screw freedom. I just don’t want to pay taxes.” alternet But to be fair, those who advocate going back to this, do allow a few crumbs to be tossed in the way of a few safety nets. But just a few, mind you. But more importantly - all the improvements in our lives from this example of life in the 1880's until now have come from the democrats, unions and the creation of the middle class.

You are absolutely right. You see what the teabagger vandals did to the classroom of free thinkers. They were obviously threatened by it. You see what Texas has done to rewrite history with their history books. In Dover, PA, they tried to get creationism taught in the schools. Luckily, they were shut down in the courts. You see the neocon pundits on talk shows trying to rewrite history with regard to the bush administration when Dana Perino, the former white house press secretary, say we weren't attacked during the bush presidency and rudy giuliani saying 9/11 didn't happen on bush's watch. Unbelievable and scary which is why we need to be ever more vigilant and work hard to protect our freedoms and this country.

The proof that so much of this is rooted in hatred for Pres. Obama is all the examples I have posted (mostly on the now shut down hypocrisy of republicans thread) about the ideas supported by republicans until Pres. Obama supported them and then they were against them. The republicans are falling all over each other trying to be the most conservative. "I'm the most conservative" "No, I'm the most conservative". It's amusing and pathetic to watch "I'm a maverick" "No, I'm not a maverick" McCain flip flop all over the place like a fish out of water in his attempts to become the more conservative candidate in AZ. They might win some battles in the short term with this narrowing of idealology but in the end they will lose the war because this is a centrist country. But I will do all I can to keep it from being hijacked by the extremists on the right.

The government gets bashed on these boards by certain posters and in public by those who worship saint ronnie, so I am happy to post the following: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help you Mon May 17, 2010 at 02:12:27 AM PDT a teacher a fireman a policeman/state trooper an ambulance driver a soldier/sailor/airman/Marine/Coastguardsman an air traffic controller a public librarian a curator at the Smithsonian I have your check from Social Security Medicare Medicaid the Veterans Administration I inspect your roads bridges dams subways airplanes rail road tracks food I make sure that you don't get poisoned by food beverage prescription medicines over the counter drugs I make sure unsafe things are repaired/recalled/replaced, things like pet food from China containing Melamine toys from China with lead-based paint cars with dangerous defects dolls with noses on which children can choke cribs between whose slats children can get caught and choke I guarantee loans so you can buy a house go to college start a business I'm from the Government. You should be thankful that there are people like me. We are you. We are your family and your neighbors. We help each other. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise. I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you. Peace. dailykos

You're so right. The religious zealots have a political agenda that they try to push down the throats of the rest of us under the guise of "the bible".

I have seen all of Michael Moore's movies and enjoyed them all.

So, once again, when the government collects taxes, it's stealing? Did this stealing just start under Pres. Obama or was it stealing when bush collected taxes, started two wars (both unfunded), gave Halliburton a no-bid contract ($18 billion still missing and unaccounted for by them), gave a trillion dollar (unfunded) giveaway to pharma, etc... And God wants us to be obedient to those in authority over us despite their wrong doing? Hmmm. Well, then those nazis that gassed Jews and threw live children into the crematoriums and then claimed "they were just following orders" were doing what God wanted them to do- "be obedient to those in authority over us despite their wrong doing". Wow! And you claim I don't understand spirituality? :thumbup:

Thanks, peaches, for your insights and personal experience. Of course you understand that this won't change the mind of some on here who just know how bad it is in other countries with universal health insurance because rush, beck, palin and the rest of the whackos said so. And of course they know someone who knows someone who this or that bad thing happened to...

The first thing to keep in mind is the Ninth Amendment. It states that rights are not restricted because they are not specifically covered in the Constitution. This was designed to prevent future tyrants from saying that since a right was not specifically covered in the Constitution that they could take away our liberties.

What you mean is I don't agree with YOUR interpretation of the bible, your conclusions and the so-called spirituality that you claim to "get". And I certainly don't need to listen to some country western singer or her songs to develop my spirituality. And my eyes are wide open to my own conclusions about spirituality. It is you who are blind to the reality of our country, its people, their needs, the government and how it works, etc.. You have shown your ignorance time and time again. Correcting you has almost become a full time job for me.

Why would God want us to be obedient to stealing (i.e. paying taxes)?

Those people in the federal agencies are getting paid regardless, so why not undertake a study and make recommendations to cut spending? You're the one who's always yapping about cutting spending. You have to find out where the waste or duplications are first. Geez!! And as far as going through the list tomorrow, well I'm sure I speak for many when I say we all wait with baited breath for your "insight" And by the way, it isn't my list - someone else composed it. And I guess it's only stupid because it hurts to see how well Pres. Obama is doing. Good night, indeed!!

I said that we all benefit from having an educated populace even if you don't have kids. I want the person who is driving the car down the road to be able to read the road signs. I want the check out person to be able to ring up my order. I want the people who take my blood pressure or give me medicine or shots to know what they're doing, etc...

90 Accomplishments of Pres. Obama Which The Media Fails to Report.... Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 03:59:39 AM PDT Media loves to say that President Obama is not getting much accomplished which the facts belie and fail to report the 90 plus accomplishments of administration, so far! "Professor Watson writes Hi friends, I am always being asked to grade Obama's presidency. In place of offering him a grade, I put together a list of his accomplishments thus far. I think you would agree that it is very impressive. His first six months have been even more active than FDRs or LBJs the two standards for such assessments. Yet, there is little media attention given to much of what he has done. Of late, the media is focusing almost exclusively on Obama's critics, without holding them responsible for the uncivil, unconstructive tone of their disagreements or without holding the previous administration responsible for getting us in such a deep hole. The misinformation and venom that now passes for political reporting and civic debate is beyond description. As such, there is a need to set the record straight. What most impresses me is the fact that Obama has accomplished so much not from a heavy-handed or top-down approach but from a style that has institutionalized efforts to reach across the aisle, encourage vigorous debate, and utilize town halls and panels of experts in the policy-making process. Beyond the accomplishments, the process is good for democracy and our democratic processes have been battered and bruised in recent years. Let me know if I missed anything in the list (surely I did). Robert Ordered all federal agencies to undertake a study and make recommendations for ways to cut spending Ordered a review of all federal operations to identify and cut wasteful spending and practices Instituted enforcement for equal pay for women Beginning the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq Families of fallen soldiers have expenses covered to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB Ended media blackout on war casualties; reporting full information Ended media blackout on covering the return of fallen soldiers to Dover AFB; the media is now permitted to do so pending adherence to respectful rules and approval of fallen soldier's family The White House and federal government are respecting the Freedom of Information Act Instructed all federal agencies to promote openness and transparency as much as possible Limits on lobbyist's access to the White House Limits on White House aides working for lobbyists after their tenure in the administration Ended the previous stop-loss policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date Phasing out the expensive F-22 war plane and other outdated weapons systems, which weren't even used or needed in Iraq/Afghanistan Removed restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research Federal support for stem-cell and new biomedical research New federal funding for science and research labs States are permitted to enact federal fuel efficiency standards above federal standards Increased infrastructure spending (roads, bridges, power plants) after years of neglect Funds for high-speed, broadband Internet access to K-12 schools New funds for school construction The prison at Guantanamo Bay is being phased out US Auto industry rescue plan Housing rescue plan $789 billion economic stimulus plan The public can meet with federal housing insurers to refinance (the new plan can be completed in one day) a mortgage if they are having trouble paying US financial and banking rescue plan The secret detention facilities in Eastern Europe and elsewhere are being closed Ended the previous policy; the US now has a no torture policy and is in compliance with the Geneva Convention standards Better body armor is now being provided to our troops The missile defense program is being cut by $1.4 billion in 2010 Restarted the nuclear nonproliferation talks and building back up the nuclear inspection infrastructure/protocols Reengaged in the treaties/agreements to protect the Antarctic Reengaged in the agreements/talks on global warming and greenhouse gas emissions Visited more countries and met with more world leaders than any president in his first six months in office Successful release of US captain held by Somali pirates; authorized the SEALS to do their job US Navy increasing patrols off Somali coast Attractive tax write-offs for those who buy hybrid automobiles Cash for clunkers program offers vouchers to trade in fuel inefficient, polluting old cars for new cars; stimulated auto sales Announced plans to purchase fuel efficient American-made fleet for the federal government Expanded the SCHIP program to cover health care for 4 million more children Signed national service legislation; expanded national youth service program Instituted a new policy on Cuba, allowing Cuban families to return home to visit loved ones Ended the previous policy of not regulating and labeling carbon dioxide emissions Expanding vaccination programs Immediate and efficient response to the floods in North Dakota and other natural disasters Closed offshore tax safe havens Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals Ended the previous policy of offering tax benefits to corporations who outsource American jobs; the new policy is to promote in-sourcing to bring jobs back Ended the previous practice of protecting credit card companies; in place of it are new consumer protections from credit card industry's predatory practices Energy producing plants must begin preparing to produce 15% of their energy from renewable sources Lower drug costs for seniors Ended the previous practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug manufacturers for cheaper drugs; the federal government is now realizing hundreds of millions in savings Increasing pay and benefits for military personnel Improved housing for military personnel Initiating a new policy to promote federal hiring of military spouses Improved conditions at Walter Reed Military Hospital and other military hospitals Increasing student loans Increasing opportunities in AmeriCorps program Sent envoys to Middle East and other parts of the world that had been neglected for years; reengaging in multilateral and bilateral talks and diplomacy Established a new cyber security office Beginning the process of reforming and restructuring the military 20 years after the Cold War to a more modern fighting force; this includes new procurement policies, increasing size of military, new technology and cyber units and operations, etc. Ended previous policy of awarding no-bid defense contracts Ordered a review of hurricane and natural disaster preparedness Established a National Performance Officer charged with saving the federal government money and making federal operations more efficient Students struggling to make college loan payments can have their loans refinanced Improving benefits for veterans Many more press conferences and town halls and much more media access than previous administration Instituted a new focus on mortgage fraud The FDA is now regulating tobacco Ended previous policy of cutting the FDA and circumventing FDA rules Ended previous practice of having White House aides rewrite scientific and environmental rules, regulations, and reports Authorized discussions with North Korea and private mission by Pres. Bill Clinton to secure the release of two Americans held in prisons Authorized discussions with Myanmar and mission by Sen. Jim Web to secure the release of an American held captive Making more loans available to small businesses Established independent commission to make recommendations on slowing the costs of Medicare Appointment of first Latina to the Supreme Court Authorized construction/opening of additional health centers to care for veterans Limited salaries of senior White House aides; cut to $100,000 Renewed loan guarantees for Israel Changed the failing/status quo military command in Afghanistan Deployed additional troops to Afghanistan New Afghan War policy that limits aerial bombing and prioritizes aid, development of infrastructure, diplomacy, and good government practices by Afghans Announced the long-term development of a national energy grid with renewable sources and cleaner, efficient energy production Returned money authorized for refurbishment of White House offices and private living quarters Paid for redecoration of White House living quarters out of his own pocket Held first Seder in White House Attempting to reform the nation's healthcare system which is the most expensive in the world yet leaves almost 50 million without health insurance and millions more under insured Has put the ball in play for comprehensive immigration reform Has announced his intention to push for energy reform Has announced his intention to push for education reform dailykos This was as of November 2009, so we can add the huge victory of healthcare to this list. No accomplishments, indeed!

Let's see. You say that this life doesn't matter and I claim you said it's meaningless. Sounds like you're splitting hairs and the one who has found herself in a spiritual corner. And as far as "getting it" I think I get everything far better than your narrow, myopic, ditto head of the conservative talking points view.

And we had no electricity, indoor plumbing or telephones and people lived miles apart from each other and worked at home on their farms. It was difficult to travel and get kids to a school. But the rich did. So, we progressed and moved on. What's your point?

St. Patrick's Day is not an "American" holiday but we use tax payer money to provide police and clean up services for the big city parades all across the country and no one seems to mind that. But I guess that's because it's a white, non-American holiday. And BTW - it's St. Paddy's Day not Patty's Day. I am part Irish and I celebrate this holiday every year and attend the Irish festival and I am fine with celebrating our diverse ethnic population and their cultures. And I again will repeat that I think the kids wore those shirts as an "in your face" to the latino kids who attended the school. That being said, they should have been made to remove the bandanas but allowed to keep the shirts and then ignored.

Here's a different answer to someone's prayers. And after reading it, let's have three cheers for corporate america. And people think that the government is the problem? Yeah, right! Wells Fargo Preys on Mom of Scalded Baby in ICU Sat May 15, 2010 at 07:25:20 PM PDT One year old Ethan Coombs, of my hometown of Sanford, North Carolina, pulled on a tea bag and accidentally scalded himself with a pot of near-boiling Water. Ethan spent days in the ICU at UNC, Chapel Hill. To his family it was a harrowing and costly medical emergency. To Wells Fargo, it was a business opportunity. Wells Fargo sent a letter to the Coombs offering to cut their mortgage payments by more than two thirds in their time of need. Injured Ethan in center of photo. photo by Stephanie Bruce, Fayetteville Oberver FishOutofWater's diary :: :: Linda Coombs was desperate to find a way to pay her bills with her baby in the ICU. She prayed to God for help. She thought God had answered her prayers when she read the letter from Wells Fargo. Wells Fargo wrote that she was pre-qualified for the federal government loan modification program recently passed into law. "It sounded like an answer to our prayers when we were at a lowest point in our life," Linda Coombs said. ..... The Coombses, who have four children, were a month behind in their mortgage payment, so they jumped at the offer to cut their monthly bill from about $766 to $233. Under the federal government's Home Affordable Modification Program, eligible borrowers receive trial mortgage modifications in which payments are reduced to 31 percent of their income, according to the Congressional Oversight Panel. After three months of successful payments, participants are told, the modification is converted to "permanent" status for five or more years. As instructed by Wells Fargo, Linda Coombs said, she began paying $233 a month in September. That continued for three months, she said, until Wells Fargo sent a notice saying the family owed more than $3,000 in back payments. Wells Fargo never apparently never intended to approve the Coombs. They saw an opportunity to collect thousands of dollars of fees. Wells Fargo now says that her husband, a carpenter, doesn't make enough money to be approved. However, they must have known about his income when he applied for the modification. Wells Fargo is threatening foreclosure, requesting payement of the full amount of the mortgage plus thousands of dollars of legal and late payment fees. Thousands of other people have been given similar offers then foreclosed on by Wells Fargo. A class action lawsuit has been filed in Boston based on a very similar case. Moreover, there is strong evidence of predatory lending by Wells Fargo in Tennessee. In Tennessee, Wells Fargo preyed on African Americans according to a lawsuit filed in April. The complaint against Wells Fargo says the company would identify possible customers through their purchases of furniture and jewelry at businesses in African-American areas of the city and county, as well as those who previously had loans with the company. Credit managers in branch offices were instructed to contact these "leads" to persuade them to apply for new subprime loans with Wells Fargo, according to the lawsuit. "The way we were told to sell these loans was to explain that we were eliminating the customers' old debt by consolidating their existing debts into one new one," said Dancy, who worked as a credit manager in Wells Fargo's Park Avenue office from 2007 to 2008, in a declaration filed with the court. "This was not really true. We were actually just giving them a new, more expensive loan that put their house at risk." "The prevailing attitude was that African-American customers weren't savvy enough to know they were getting a bad loan, so we would have a better chance of convincing them to apply for a high-cost, subprime loan," Taylor said in a declaration filed with the court. Linda Coombs isn't bitter. She thanks God that her baby is doing well, making a full recovery, but she's fighting to her family from homelessness. She has contacted an attorney who is interested in starting a class action suit in North Carolina. The federal government needs to investigate indict and try the executives behind these corporate crimes against average Americans. The mortgage loan modification program has been turned into a marketing opportunity for fraud. Wells Fargo will continue to prey on families of injured babies until their crimes stop paying. dailykos

I didn't find this post at all sarcastic. I think you are right on.