Cleo's Mom

Thank you. :thumbup:

Here's the "apple" (re: the building where the mosque will be): The five-story building on Park Place, a few blocks north of Wall Street, was completed between 1857 and 1858 and is an Italian Renaissance-inspired palazzo. It formerly housed a department store, which closed after the building was damaged on Sept. 11. Muslim prayer service is held at the building at least one day a week. The church is 200 years old, this building is 152, so what's your point? I did the google search. Couldn't come up with anything but I'm sure you can give us your websites.

Trinity Church and St. Paul's Chapel are near ground zero. Additionally, the building already exists and is used about once a week by Muslims. The plan is to expand it and make it a mosque and community center. It is privately owned and if it doesn't violate zoning laws I don't see how the government can dictate how a private owner can use his land. Those on the right are always yapping about big government and losing rights, blah, blah, blah, well if any government agency told a private owner that he couldn't build something that met all zoning requirement you know what would hit the fan. That being said, there are terrorists among us. We all know that. Remember Jihad Jane, a caucasian woman and Richard Reed and Timonty McVeigh? They don't all look like middle easterners. And those terrorists don't need a mosque to meet. They can meet anywhere. And what are these websites are you citing that say that terrorists erect buildings at sites they have destroyed? Where has this happened? What buildings have they erected and where?

I don't think Bloomberg is Muslim, in fact, I think he's jewish and Andrew Cuomo is another non-Muslim and they both support it. Plus those on the NY committee who approved the building/use of it, I doubt they were all muslims. A mosque is a place of worship. I would not be going there. I'm not sure what the community center would involve but you could make the argument that we don't need libraries, we can just go to bookstores or read/order books online. And I doubt it is going to make people hate Muslims anymore than they already do. I think that ship has sailed. And no, I'm not Muslim. I am not going to get into a pi$$ing match with you. You are all about war-mongering, hating Muslims and lumping them all in with terrorists and someone with that mindset is not worth debating. And like I've posted before, Americans have always had to have some sub-group to hate and blame for everything: immigrants, blacks, Japanese, women, mexican, muslims....

I didn't say it wasn't a big deal to some. He is one person. There are others who support it. Besides, it's private property and if it isn't violating zoning laws how can you dictate what a private property owner does? Would all those tea partiers who oppose big government want big government stepping in and telling a private owner what he can do with his property? If so it would be yet another example of hypocrisy.

Why do I need help if I am not offended by a mosque and community center being built 2 blocks from ground zero? And "there better be protests against this" - why don't you go to NYC and protest this? You can attend some of the meetings they are having about it. I am sure they would welcome an outsider's opinion. You could go with Sarah Palin who wants people to "refudiate"* this mosque. *and we thought bush butchered the English language

There are other places of worship near ground zero. This mosque will also be a community center open to all. Mayor Bloomberg supports it and I think he knows the city and the people. The building is already being used by the Muslims about once a week. It is 2 blocks from ground zero. How many blocks away would be acceptable? 3? 4? 5? ..........50?

Why don't we just round up all the muslims and hispanics and put them in detention camps like we did the Japanese during WWII? We considered the Japanese living here during that time to be the enemy. Then we could just concentrate our hate in a smaller area. Because peaceful Muslim citizens building a mosque and community center near ground zero does not threaten me, nor does it give any kind of message to the terrorists. If it gives any message it's that we won't be intimidated by them. That we are moving on as a country and rebuilding. This is not a slap in the face to anyone. There are other places of worship near ground zero. Should we prohibit catholic churches from being built near playgrounds because some priests sexually abuse kids?

Maybe people are finally "getting it" and realize that the November elections will be about a choice between the democrats who want to move this country forward (e.g. six months of positive job growth, financial reform) and the republicans who want to take us back to the failed policies of bush that got us in this mess to begin with: Democrats Jump Into Six-Point Lead on Generic Ballot At the same time, Republican enthusiasm for voting in November surges by Lydia Saad PRINCETON, NJ -- In the same week the U.S. Senate passed a major financial reform bill touted as reining in Wall Street, Democrats pulled ahead of Republicans, 49% to 43%, in voters' generic ballot preferences for the 2010 congressional elections.

If watching what a 50 cal will do satisfies anyone, including you, then you need help.

Wow! This post really shows your war mongering side and it's not pretty. You lump all Muslims in with Al-Qaeda and Taliban terrorists. How would you like to lumped in with the KKK or the Nazis because you're white or christian? Or with pedophiles because you're Catholic (I don't know if you are, just an example)? I posted an op-ed from the Washington Post on your other thread about this. I think it is very well written. And BTW, this is not about Pres. Obama, although I know everyone wants to blame him for everything. Maybe we should erect a statue of bush at ground zero CONTINUING to read "My Pet Goat" after the first plane crashed into the world trade center. There's real leadership!

From the great congressman, Alan Grayson, from Florida who tells it like it is: My grandfather in the 1930s spent several years of his life, every single day, going through the dump. Looking for things there that he could sell. Looking for things that he could take to the market and sell because there was no other way for him to survive the 1930s and the Great Depression. There was no unemployment insurance back then. There was no state benefits back then. There was no help for the people who had jobs. All they could do, like my grandfather in desperate straits supporting a family of seven, was to go to the dump and desperately try to find something he could sell. And that, my friends, is the America that the Republicans are trying to revive: the America of desperate straits and, for them, cheap labor. The America where people have nothing, hope for nothing, and are desperate to live to the next day. That is what the Republicans are trying to resurrect by blocking unemployment insurance day after day, week after week, and now month after month. I've got news for my Republican friends. Every single person who's going to receive unemployment insurance under this bill is unemployed. Every single one of them doesn't have a job. And that's why they need this money. Now I know what the Republicans are thinking. They're thinking "Why don't they just sell some stock? If they're in really dire straits, maybe they can take some of their art collection and send it off to the auctioneer. And if they're in deep, deep trouble, maybe these unemployed can sell one of their yachts." That's what the Republicans are thinking right now. But that's not the life of ordinary people. The ninety-nine percent of America that actually has to work for a living... that doesn't just flip coupons and live off of interests and dividends like my Republican friends do. That's why we need this bill to pass. Because of the ninety-nine percent of America that deals with reality every day. The people who will lose their home if this bill doesn't pass. The people who will be living in their cars if this doesn't pass. That's why we need this to pass. And I will say this to the Republicans who have blocked this bill now for months and kept foods out of the months of children. I will say to them now: May God have mercy on your souls.

from the Washington Post: A peace-making mosque is NECESSARY near Ground Zero Peace does not fall from the sky, or come about by ignoring the need to teach tolerance. Peace is made, and it is made because courageous individuals reach out toward one another and do the difficult work of overcoming hatred and fear. It is for this reason that it is absolutely NECESSARY for a Islamic cultural center and mosque, run by Muslims who are seeking interfaith-understanding and peace, to be built nearly the site of 9/11. Daisy Khan, executive director of the American Society for Muslim Advancement, one of the organizations driving this mosque project, points out the need for moderate Muslims, such as the people behind this project, to step forward. "People often say, 'Where are the moderate Muslim voices?' A building like this, with this scale, will be an amplifier for that often silent majority...What most people don't know is that the people who are driving this forward are very integrated into the community downtown. We are nothing to be feared." One of the ways to change the narrative of Muslims as aliens in America, people who should be feared, is to create another narrative by living into a new relationship. This mosque and community center can help do that. It is also a terrible thing for Muslims to not have their losses on 9/11 acknowledged, and this Islamic site, I believe, should honor those innocent victims of the terror attacks. There were many Muslims killed by the terrorists who destroyed the World Trade Center buildings. Muslims like Salman Hamdani, a young New York City police cadet and part-time ambulance driver, who was about to start medical school. He was found under the rubble of the North Tower, his EMT medical bag beside him, apparently killed while trying to help those injured in the attacks. A Muslim waiter at a Tower restaurant, Mohammad Chowdhury, died on 9/11, leaving his pregnant wife to give birth to their child 48 hours after the attacks, making their child the first 9/11 orphan. There were Muslims on the hijacked planes, including a young couple traveling to a friend's wedding. The wife was 7 months pregnant. Family members, however, were barred from taking flights to her memorial service. Her mother said, "I would like everyone to know that she was a Muslim, she is a Muslim and we are victims too, of this tragic incident." It is an awful thing to lose a family member, a child, a beloved friend in such a violent attack. But these Muslim families ended up often being singled out for blame, not for support for their losses. This mosque should honor their loved ones who also died in this senseless, brutal assault and help them find some peace. There are many reasons why this mosque near Ground Zero is a good idea--it is a way to actually make a change for the better in this country, deal directly with the fear and suspicion directed at Muslims for no reason other than the fact that they are Muslims, and also address as yet often unacknowledged public sorrow for Muslims who lost loved ones on 9/11. It is, in fact, NECESSARY to act your way into the change you want to see. Peace and tolerance don't just happen. They happen because kindly and brave people like Daisy Khan try to make it happen. By Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite | July 19, 2010; 5:46 PM ET

There are those still in denial about the racism in the tea party: Today, NAACP delegates passed a resolution to condemn extremist elements within the Tea Party, calling on Tea Party leaders to repudiate those in their ranks who use racist language in their signs and speeches. The resolution came after a year of high-profile media coverage of attendees of Tea Party marches using vial, antagonistic racial slurs & images. In March, respected members of the Congressional Black Caucus reported that racial epithets were hurled at them as they passed by a Washington, DC health care protest. Billy Roper is a write-in candidate for governor of Arkansas and an unapologetic white nationalist. "I don’t want non-whites in my country in any form or fashion or any status," he says. Roper also is a tea party member who says he has been gathering support for his cause by attending tea party rallies. "We go to these tea parties all over the country," Roper said. "We’re looking for the younger, potentially more radical people."

Eisenhower wouldn't even be allowed in the republican party today. The John Birchers are rising up again after William F. Buckley dismissed them years ago. And they think Eisenhower was a communist. But they also think flouride in our drinking water is a communist plot, too. Rove and Cheney ran the oval office. Only toward the end of his presidency did bush seem to turn more of a deaf ear to cheney. He wouldn't pardon libby. cheney's still fuming, although without a pulse.

Well, you could have counted me in the other 30% who never believed a word bush said as well as the 5% who didn't support him right after 9/11. As far as I'm concerned he probably knelt down and thanked the gods above for 9/11 because without it he would not have been able to advance his extremist agenda: invade Iraq, Patriot Act, set up illegal prisons, illegal spying on americans, torture, rendition, expanding the powers of the president, etc..all in the name of the "war on terror" and the americans just gave a collective shrug to all of it. Now that we have a black man in the white house, all of a sudden everyone's a constitutional expert and they KNOW what our founding fathers meant because they tell us everyday. Now they worry about our constitution. Now they worry about budgets, deficits, spending, etc.. And yet 32% of those in the south didn't even know from whom we got our independence. But I'll bet they could recite the second amendment word for word.

That's because people don't like to have to think for themselves. They want the news reduced to short sound bites (like death panels) and they allow themselves to be influenced by fear and emotional rants. They don't want to do their homework and separate fact from fiction. I don't watch fox news but it is my understanding that they have had 300 reports about the so called voter "intimidation" outside of Philly. 300? Are you kidding me? Talk about a tempest in a teapot. But I'll bet not one of those reports included the FACT that it was the bush administration's Justice Dept. that made the decision not to pursue criminal charges against members of the New Black Panther for this alleged voter intimidation in 2008. Instead Pres. Obama and his administration get the blame. You also won't hear on fox that it was the bush DOJ that decided not to pursue criminal charges against members of the Minutemen, one of whom allegedly carried a weapon while harassing Hispanic voters in Arizona in 2006. So, it's up to us to speak truth to the lies.

Yes, switch to the LB doctor. He is used to seeing bigger weight loss with the bypass. He has unrealistic expectations of you. I sometimes think that with the big egos doctors have they take your weight loss as a victory (or failure) of themselves. And if you don't lose enough weight then they blame you. My doctor wanted me to lose 10-15 lbs in three weeks after my surgery and before my first fill and I had already lost 60 lbs. on my own and with all the pre and post op dieting. I sometimes think these doctors took speed courses in the surgery itself to get on the lucrative bandwagon of WLS but don't know anything about proper follow up. Good luck.

I don't know how politically active or involved your are but I do know that the tea party wants to hijack the republican party and make it an extremist party. They don't want to form a third party due to the historically poor showing of third parties but rather -and I quote - they want to "cleanse the republican party". So moderate, logical, thinking people like you need to keep that from happening. The days of moderate republicans seem to be coming to an end as they try to pander to the tea party. Don't let that happen.

Here's the tea party that wants to take control of our government. It doesn't matter that the billboard will be changed. What matters is the mind-set that put it there to begin with: Iowa Tea Party Group Backs Down on Obama-Lenin-Hitler Billboard Prison Planet.com Wednesday, July 14, 2010 The North Iowa Tea Party has buckled in response to criticism and has removed their billboard. The North Iowa Tea Party has experienced cold feet. On Wednesday the group replaced a billboard comparing Barry Obama to Adolf Hitler and Vladimir Lenin, calling the sign a bad decision that reflected poorly on the organization, according to the Associated Press. The billboard was in downtown Mason, Iowa. Last week the 200 member Tea Party in Iowa decided to put up the billboard. It showed Hitler, Obama, and Lenin with the words “National Socialism,” and “Marxist Socialism.” It was decided to remove the billboard after other Tea Party groups and leaders criticized its message and images. North Iowa Tea Party co-founder Bob Johnson said he agreed the images of Hitler and Lenin on either side of an image of Obama was offensive. He said the images overwhelmed the intended message of anti-socialism. “They are absolutely right in their criticism because the image of Hitler just totally wiped everything else and it misrepresents the tea party movement,” Johnson said. “They were right from the standpoint that the image was not a positive reflection on the tea people.” The American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors and their Descendants, a New York-based group, said the image of Hitler was inappropriate. “We ask that political groups do not trivialize our suffering in the future by making false analogies with Hitler’s horrendous crimes,” the group said in a statement. The North Iowa Tea Party plans to replace the billboard with a new one featuring a quote from Thomas Jefferson. “My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government,” the Jefferson quote purportedly says. Critics argue that Jefferson never made the statement. “It’s going to be little more bland,” Johnson told the Associated Press. “We paid for a month, so we don’t want to waste the money.” The Tea Party has been a “little more bland” since it was hijacked by establishment Republicans and former McCain running mate Sarah Palin was declared its unofficial leader.

I hear what you're saying. It was just a clever saying I came up with. But I do think that most people who call themselves conservatives watch Fox as opposed to any other cable news station. If you are a conservative who doesn't believe in tax cuts for the rich - you are in the minority. I wish more were like you. Thanks for your post. :cool:

Tell your doctor that you'll get serious when he gets you to your sweet spot. That is his job. If you wanted to starve and use will power you wouldn't need the band, you'd just go on yet another diet. His having unrealistic expectations for weight loss when you only have one cc is not fair to you. Are you sure you don't have my former doctor? I got the come to Jesus talk. I finally left and found another doctor. Best move I made. My new doctor was thrilled with my weight loss and very encouraging.

Liberals have Facts Conservatives have Fox

Doctors have said that there are maybe a handful of cases where someone whose terminal cancer has disappeared. This among the millions who die of cancer every year. Not enough to substantiate some miracle by those who had the right relationship to God and whose prayers were answered.

That can be answered by the number of people who are duped by the tea party and who actually believe that movement is about spending and deficits.