Cleo's Mom

I still want a scientific or medical reason why food staying in the pouch for only a few minutes provides a lasting sense of fullness. I need to know the biology behind this statement. Also, why the "no liquids before or after eating" then? This is from Bariatric.US Laparoscopic adjustable gastric banding (LAGB), also known as gastric banding or lapband surgery, is a type of bariatric surgery that promotes weight loss by restricting the amount of food that can enter the stomach at any one time. By slowing digestion, it also helps to control feelings of hunger and increase the feeling of fullness after eating a meal. Gastric banding offers obese individuals a bariatric treatment that is less invasive and safer than gastric bypass surgery.

If you read the article in the thread "Worth the Read" on here and believe what it says, then the not drinking before and after meals doesn't really make sense.

It is my opinion that bariatric doctors are all over the place in their guidelines for pre-op and post-op diets, testing and follow up care. You see that from the many different posts on here. Some can eat full meals up to the day before their surgery and start mushies soon after surgery - I was put on a liquid-only diet for 2 weeks prior to and after surgery. Some doctors require the 1/2 cup only of food at each meal, others are more lax. All that being said, if the pouch loses the food in a few minutes I don't understand where the feeling of fullness comes from. Just because it was in the pouch for a few minutes the brain thinks you're full - even though the pouch empties into the larger stomach? I would like to see the scientific evidence to back this up. I was told the purpose of the pouch was to keep the food there and empty SLOWLY to keep you feeling full for several hours. Also, if that is true, then why the "no liquids before or after eating" for 30 minutes? Another area the WLS doctors are all over the place about. If your food empties out of the pouch in a few minutes, then why no liquids for an hour afterward like my former doctor required? There is much about this article that just doesn't ring true for me and I suspect many other banded patients and it's also clear that many on here rely very much on more fills to restrict what they can eat and live with the consequences of heartburn, reflux, etc..as the price they think they have to pay for weight loss.

So, let me see if I got this right 1) The band is not about restriction 2) The band is supposed to suppress your appetite 3) The food in the pouch above the band passes into your stomach within a few minutes and is not made to stay in the pouch 4) And somehow this is supposed to trick your brain that you are not hungry and your appetite is suppressed. Huh? The way the band was explained to me is that without the band you feel full when the food reaches the top of the stomach. With the band pouch the food is already up there - thus the sense of fullness. If it only stays there for minutes I don't know how it creates that sense of fullness. But anyway, the band has never reduced my appetite, provided me a sense of fullness or worked like it is supposed to. So all that is a moot point. I would imagine that whole "not relying on tighter restriction" will surprise all those on here who do just that. Those are the one who ask "how many times a week do you vomit?" or who can only drink their Breakfast, etc...

I am someone who changed doctors seven months after my surgery because my first one was inexperienced and had very poor follow up care and knowledge about the band and how it works. I think some WLS surgeons prefer the gastric bypass because patients do lose more weight faster and they take that as a reflection on them. You doctor also said he prefered bypass to the lapband because of less follow up. That is doctor speak for: I am not very good at the whole fill/unfill, getting the band to work thing. You have been well advised to move on to another doctor because, while the surgical part of the band is important, the follow up care is even more important to get the band to work as it should. Good luck.

I think you will find people who represent the whole spectrum on this issue, like most issues. I remember a poster who used to say you needed to count everything, including spices. Yes, she wanted you to count that shake of cinnamon. Others would be more lax in their approach - and they could be just as successful. I guess it is as much your personal approach and how well you are doing with it.

As for needing a lawyer. No, I don't think there is anything here that is medically negligent. However, I would not pay any bills for an extended stay when you were told you would be there just the one day and through no fault of your own you were kept an extra day. I would definitely appeal those charges. The hosptial might be big but they don't have enough staff to monitor all the beds so all the beds are not available. That was probably the case and housekeeping was slow to get you a room. Still, not your problem. Also, and this is very important - YOU need to get copies of all your test results. Including the operative report and initial liver biopsy as well as your hospital report/chart during your stay. That will show you were doing okay and could have gone home the same day. You should not be paying out of pocket for all these tests until you determine that they were necessary, done correctly and the results were correct. That's why you need to get copies and review them. Good luck.

Thank you so much for your kind words of support. :thumbup: We all need to be more like you. I have said all along that the ones who get the band to work as it should are very lucky. But the whole obesity problem is so complex that even the medical professionals don't totally understand it. They are learning all the time. There are genes, hormones, stomach signals to the brain, possibly viruses and a whole host of other things that compromise our metabolism, how we eat, when we eat, our hunger and our satiety. When I mentioned the hunger hormones, grehlin and leptin, to my former surgeon, he just rolled his eyes. So, is it any wonder we get that attitude by some on here? Even though I took off most of my weight (60 of the 75lbs) without the band, I don't think I would have lost the 60 without the mandated diets and the liquids only pre-and post- surgery. So for that reason, I am glad I made the journey but I am disappointed that the band has not worked for me like it was promoted. Good luck to you and thanks again.

Morethanthis: I am almost 60 years of age and I have dealt with many difficult family members, including my mother, but not about WLS - about other things. I came to the point where I realized I didn't want to spend anymore time or energy on toxic people. They weren't going to change. So, I decided that if people didn't have my best interest at heart and weren't going to treat me the way I deserved, why would I want them in my life. They say you can't pick your relatives. True. But you utimately can decide who is part of your life - related or not. So, tell your mother that you were not seeking her approval, you were just informing her. Tell her that she doesn't have to agree with your decision but she has to support it and you don't want to hear anymore negative or critical comments as it is important to be surrounded by supportive people on this journey. Tell her that if she wants to have any part in your life, she will either have to be supportive or silent about this. Otherwise, tell her you will block her emails or just send them to the trash, unread. I know it's hard to do, but I wish I had done what I did a lot sooner. My life is so much better now, but it took some guts and later getting cancer, to know what is really important in life - especially when you don't know how much time you have. Do you really want to waste it on these type of people or on those who love and support you. It's a tough choice but one that you need to make. Good luck.

Elcee, thanks for your input, insight and suggestions. Like I said, I have a lot to think about and decisions to make. Thanks, again.

Thanks for your reply, information and suggestions. I really apprecitate it. My new doctor sounds like yours. He says too many of his patients rely on being too tight to control their eating. I mean who wants to eat 1/2 cup of food for a meal? What would you even put in that 1/2 cup anyway? How could you get your daily protein, veggies and fruits that we are supposed to eat? I am going to make an appt. with my surgeon but my guess is he'll say I'm doing fine. Even though I've put on about 3lbs since all the fill was removed in December. When I recall the pain I was in with that stuck episode I break out in a cold sweat. I never imagined anything could be that painful that I couldn't even talk. So I am naturally very afraid of that EVER happening again. Much to talk to him about. I too eat more food than most bandsters on here. Have you read the thread about "what did you eat today?" Most eat very little (although I have to say some make very bad food choices). I eat much more but around 1300 calories. I do think in hindsight that for what my problem was - big appetite and needing a lot of food to feel satisfied the band was not the best choice of WLS for me. But I had never even heard of the sleeve then, plus at the time my insurance had just started paying for the band. But on the other hand, I have been reading more and more posts from people who say the band doesn't really take away their hunger for hours at a time (like it does for some lucky ones) but simply restricts the amount of food they can eat and they live with the hunger. That was never my goal in getting the band. So, anyway, lots to think about. Thanks again for your help. :thumbup:

Back in the 70's or early 80's when Jane Fonda's workouts were all the rage - I bought her book. Obviously she came from a family of wealth and fame. She tells the story of when she was growing up and hearing her (very thin) mother and her rich friends talking about weight and her mother saying that she would kill herself if she gained weight. Years later she did just that. So, you're right, these people have bigger issues and just use their insults to mask them.

Elfiepoo - I am sorry you too have had problems that sound like mine. I do now go to a center of Excellence that is rated #1 in my state. You sound like me in that it has always taken a lot of food to reach the point of satiety. Even when I was overfilled and could only eat small amounts at a time, I never achieved satiety. I, too, want the band to work for me. I've done my part, now it's time for this "tool" to work. Thanks for your help.

We need to see which foreign countries are giving money to the Chamber of Commerce (the most anti-american worker organization there is) to buy our elections because then we'll better be able to see where our jobs will be shipped in a quid pro quo.

Congratulations on your baby. My daughter and her husband just had a baby in May and my son and his wife just had a baby 3 weeks ago making me a grandmother for the first and second time. It's great. But I know the stresses they talk about all the time. It's tough. But breast feeding is great for getting the baby weight off. Plus all the running around taking care of baby. If you were getting stuck a lot before the baby and pbing - you might have been too tight. Your fill/unfill history seems like you were trying to get to that sweet spot. It's elusive for many. Your priorities have shifted now and they should. Your baby is number one. You can concentrate on the weight when the time is right. In the meantime, congratulations on that baby and good luck.

Thanks, Jachut, for your insight and thoughts. I have a lot to discuss with my surgeon the next time we meet. So, it sounds like the inability to eat more (due to the band and pouch) didn't stop you from being hungry or wanting more food, it just made it difficult for you to eat more. And with your reduced eating, better food choices and exercise, you were successful. That sounds like me but I don't like living with the hunger. That's where I am at this point. I do feel "restriction" of some sort from time to time - with the strangest things, too. Like if I drink cold iced tea (decaf and sugar free, of course) too fast it feel like it is just sitting there waiting to go down. Then in a bit I feel it going down. Thanks, again. And good luck with your cancer treatment. I've been there too (with breast cancer) and when you get that diagnosis it's like a kick in the gut. I think you will do fine.

2 Things You Can Do Today To Fight the Chamber Attack Ads Sat Oct 16, 2010 at 01:46:16 PM PDT This week, reporters found that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, an opponent of union rights, workplace safety, project labor agreements and Davis-Bacon, is now using foreign money from overseas outsourcers to fund political attack ads targeting members of Congress who voted to keep jobs in the United States. While it tells the American public it cares about American jobs, the the U.S. Chamber of Commerce actually works to send jobs overseas on behalf of its corporate members, which include some of Asia’s top offshoring companies. As previously noted, the Chamber has repeatedly sent out issue alerts attacking efforts to encourage businesses to hire American workers rather than outsource to overseas destinations to India and China. At a time when millions of Americans are without jobs, the Chamber of Commerce cannot be allowed to get away with this slap in the face to every single American who has lost a job due to outsourcing, is threatened by it, or has seen family members suffer because of it. Stand up to the Chamber by doing two simple things: Write a letter to your local newspaper using a simple Letter to the Editor tool which takes less than a minute to use and; Tell your elected representatives in Washington to support an investigation into these shady attack ads. The stakes are too hight to sit back and do nothing. If the Chamber is allowed to buy its own hand-picked Congress, any effort to create jobs here at home will be completely crushed and the outsourcing of our American jobs to the countries and companies funding these attacks will continue at an even faster pace. find out who's sending jobs overseas from your community. dailykos

Sounds like you did a good job of being assertive to me! And "biggins" sounds like a hick term for fat or large or something. We all need to speak out when people are being insulted - whether it is in a store, at work or on these boards. I haven't seen a post by you for awhile. I still laugh when I think of the Linda Blair exorcist picture you posted after your raw carrot episode. I know the episode wasn't funny but the picture sure was.

Oh, I didn't take anything you said as condescending. I appreciate the time those who have replied took to give me some ideas and suggestions. I belong to Angie's list. My only problem with reporting him on there is that my comments could only lead him to know it's me. And if I ever had to call 9-1-1 and be taken to the hospital for some type of emergency surgery - guess who it would most likely be? Yep, him. His partner left last year for another hospital. This hospital (the closest to me and where an ambulance would take me) has only a few general surgeons. So, I would rather not create that situation. At this point I am not interested in losing weight (if I do, that's fine but not my focus right now) - just controlling hunger/appetite. That's it. Whatever exists in this world that can do that - I will do the rest. I make good food choices and I exercise every day and try to keep myself healthy otherwise. As a breast cancer patient I need to do that. I do cardio (treadmill and aerobic exercise videos) as well as weight training (to ward off osteoporosis - I have osteopenia now). I have tried to mix it up. I gave a list of all the foods I eat to the nutritionist at my new surgeon's and she said it was all fine. I told her what I eat and she seemed to think my diet was okay. I did find out that I was using too much "I can't believe it's not butter" and when I found out it had 860 calories a bottle I stopped that. So, I do try to tweak my diet to improve it and am always looking for ways to help with the hunger (more food without more calories). Thanks again for your replies, suggestions and help. I really appreciate it.

Could there be something else going on to cause the nausea that isn't band related? Maybe some type of virus in the stomach or the h. pylori bacteria or an ulcer or something going on the the lower part of your stomach? Just a thought. Maybe ask for something for nausea from your doctor and take it before you eat and see if that helps. But that isn't solving the problem, just the symptom. You need to find out what is causing the problem. Has your gallbladder been checked? Have you had an endoscopy and if so, what did it show? I always ask for copies of all test results. And pictures, if they provide them (my gastro doctor does for endoscopy). I'm just throwing out some ideas. I hope you have success finding out what's wrong.

Oh, I know what you meant about my former surgeon. I didn't take it as criticism at all. I have posted about him before and everyone says the same thing - that he was inexperienced - especially in follow up care and I was smart to get a new doctor. All of your suggestions make sense. I was too loose and too tight and never found the right medium. I will talk to my surgeon about that - he said finding the right spot with a 4cc band is more difficult with fills but doable. Also, he said too many of his band patients just want tighter and tighter and depend on that too much to lose weight and from many of the posts I read on here that is true of a lot of bandsters. If you read veteran Jachut's posts you would see that she doesn't believe in being so tight that you have to drink your Breakfast or limit yourself to 1/2 cup of food at a meal. And that you should be able to eat most healthy foods, including carbs, which she, like me, believes helps with hunger. She has been enormously successful. I really want this band to work. I only got it for one reason - to curb my hunger and reduce my huge appetite - the biggest problems for me. I was not a junk or fast food eater. I don't care if I ever eat a big mac again. I am a quantity eater. I need to have that satiety. Everyone comes to WLS with a different history of how and why they got where they did. Mine was that I had a huge appetite and needed large quantities of food to feel satisfied. I was just as happy with Cereal or eggs and toast as long as I could eat as much as I wanted. I didn't need pizza, wings, fast food, snack food or any other typical "bad stuff". Just quantity. So far the band has not done that at all for me. When I was too tight I got pressure and pain but I could still feel the empty stomach below wanting food. I did not achieve satiety. Having food in the pouch never translated to a feeling of satiety. The restriction just made it impossible to eat more food. Does that make sense? That the inability to eat more did not cause satiety - that for me it seemed like two different things? I appreciate that you have taken the time to offer some very good suggestions and I will discuss this with my surgeon. It's time, I think, to have a very serious discussion with him about all of this. Thanks again.

I made a poor choice with my first surgeon. I chose him because he was close (a community hospital) and since I live alone I felt that I needed nearby care. Big mistake. My new surgeon has looked at the CD's of previous upper GI's as well as conducting his own. He always says that the band looks okay. When I first went to him (after the disastrous overfill by the former surgeon) he did say I had a slight slip. When I had the overfill I also got an endoscopy and the gastro doctor said he thought the band was placed too high. He said he had thought it slipped upward, but he said he didn't have a lot of experience with banded patients. I did some research on my band. I got the product number on it and found out that it had an expiration date of June 2009 (that means guaranteed sterility). My band was placed in Sept. 2008. This is what I think: My former surgeon (who continues a general surgeon practice) wanted to jump on the $$$ bandwagon for WLS. A doctor who perfomed them was retiring and my surgeon and his partner took over the practice. They were going to use up old inventory before buying new and the retiring surgeon had these older 4cc bands around that needed to be used before the expiration date. My new surgeon doesn't use lapband - he uses the realize band. He said the 4cc band is okay but makes fills more difficult because of the very small amounts that can make a big difference. My former surgeon just slammed me with 2cc's then 1cc. That was too much each time. I will have to discuss all this with my surgeon. I don't think he would think I need anything at this time. But I will ask. I have mentioned the sleeve to him and he does them but again didn't think I needed that. Thanks for your help.

If you've been reading my posts and replies to those who slam and criticize what they call "negative" posters, you know that I agree with you 100%. You said it much better than I did and you said it well. But I wish you wouldn't leave. We need more people like you on here. There are more of us than you know and we can't let the critics get us down or cause us to leave. And you should report anyone who sends you an insulting or offensive PM to one of the moderators.

Do you know what the website it? Is it ratemydoctors.com?

I saw this post on the sleeve forum and thought - YES, YES, THAT'S THE EXPERIENCE I WANT. THAT IS ME (HER BAND EXPERIENCE) I personally think the band and the sleeve are two completely different. So far the sleeve for me has been everything I was looking for in the band, which I never got. No Hunger No Fills/Unfills!!! No food dragging in my esophagus No night coughs No cheating (like with the band you could just wash it down to your biggie stomach) I feel real fulness.. Not just pressure in my throat I really only can eat a few Oz at a time. I NEVER had this with my band, unless I was so tight I choked up everything I ate. This surgery IMO is FAR SUPERIOR to the band. Good luck!!! I am going to have to discuss all this with my new surgeon and insurance company. They wouldn't consider what I have now a complication (no slip, erosion, etc..) Thanks for your information.