Cleo's Mom

Isn't that what choice and competition is all about? If one of those choices was a government plan or even another private plan that offered the same or better coverage for less and you switched - I don't see the downside to that. It sounds like a win-win. How did you choose the current healthcare provider that you chose for your employees? Were there a lot of choices (plans), a lot of different health insurance companies to choose from? And on Wednesday, the president said there is nothing in the plan that would require any employer to change coverage for his/her employees. Haven't you always had the right to change plans during open enrollment? Or something similar.

All those people I mentioned were white and right wing extremists. You don't see the liberal left involved in these type of hate killings. There might be a few. I'm not aware of any. But by and large the hated of our government and groups of people (that I already mentioned) DO NOT COME FROM THE LIBERAL LEFT. They come from the extremists on the right. If you choose to stay in denial and ignore history and the facts, well, that is nothing new. :tongue2:

It's the radical right wing nuts who take it one step further and carry out their hatred of our government and/ or of a liberal (in their eyes) president, or a group of people they hate (blacks, gays, women, etc.) by killing. Starting with the lynchings in the south, the KKK, Timothy McVeigh (who hated our government) to Richard Poplawski who executed 3 police officers in cold blood because he thought Obama was going to take away his guns, to the guy who killed the Holocaust museum guard because he thought the government (that he hated) was going to take away his (socialism) social security checks, to the man who killed the abortion doctor, to the guy who hated women and killed 3 in a gym, or the boys who killed the young gay man in Wyoming. By and large, when we see these kinds of abhorrent acts of violence, they are committed by those on the radical right, not liberals. And yes, before anyone says that liberals kill too, I know there are a few examples. But those on the radical right live with such a violent hatred of our government or president that it doesn't take much to send them over the edge. Plus they love their guns and are armed to the teeth. And all the hate talk on the radio and tv just provides fuel to the fire and incites these people.

One particularly offensive sign (that was mass produced) said "Bury Obamacare along with Kennedy" - this from a group of anti-abortionist who joined the frey. The man just died and this is pro-life? Yeah, right!!

No, if those who oppose a government run health care option are genuine then they would advocate to privatize social security. Oh no, wait, they did advocate that until the stock market tanked. Now, they are running away from that issue. Most of medicaid is used for nursing home care. How would you propose we take care of grandma in the nursing home that costs $6000+/month. Who has that kind of money? What would YOU propose we do for grandma who needs 24/7 skilled care?

Experts who track hate groups across the U.S. are growing increasingly concerned over violent rhetoric targeted at President Obama, especially as the debate over health care intensifies and a pattern of threats emerges. Share Contentious health care debate heightens concerns for Obama's safety. The Secret Service is investigating a Maryland man who held a sign reading "Death to Obama" and "Death to Michelle and her two stupid kids" outside a town hall meeting this week. And in New Hampshire, another man stood across the street from a Presidential town hall with his gun on full display. Los Angeles police officers apprehended a man Thursday after a standoff with him inside a red Volkswagen Bug car in Westwood, CA – the latest disturbing case even though officials It's all about their hatred of Obama. These people didn't vote for him and couldn't wait for a venue to spew forth their hatred. Now, with the help of extreme right wing groups (e.g. Dick Armey) they have found it.

No, social security, medicare and medicaid are not failed programs. It's what keeps people barely out of poverty, in many cases. Social Security has been around since FDR and Medicare/Medicaid since the mid 60's. And all the arguements we hear today about a public option for healthcare are the same arguments we heard then against these programs. And by the same type of people - the "haves". And yet they were passed, the sky didn't fall, the sun rose the next day and millions of people were kept out of poverty. And I will continue to say that those who are protesting now are doing so because of their hatred of Obama, not about spending. Why else would there be such despicable signs, sayings, confederate flags, etc.. at these protests?

And here's the other side, a video from CNN about the preacher who hates Obama and prays for his death. It is worth noting the man with the assault rifle at the Obama even attended this church during this preacher's hate speech - in which he justifies it WITH THE BIBLE!! Daily Kos: CNN's Rick Sanchez in a startling video reports threats against President Obama are up 400 percent.. The people who I see protesting Obama's agenda would support this preacher and his threats.

Kossde: You need to be evaluated by the doctor who prescribed the Adderall. Perhaps Wellbutrin or one of the other drugs would work better. Or maybe an adjustment in dosage. Or maybe take it every other day. But I suspect it is this drug that is affecting your appetite. You are not getting the proper nutrients or calories and the buying of the food is just a throw back to your old habits. Your appetite has changed but your behavior is harder to change. Lack of appetite is a sign of poor health and if it isn't the Adderall, then it could be something else, like your thyroid. Please make sure you get a complete check up and blood work. Good luck.

Most people over 65 accept medicare even though they buy medigap insurance. It is a better deal than staying with private insurance. And if it's a better deal for them, then it can be a better deal for us. And to this I say "so what"? We should be offered the best deal and let the consumers choose and this would be the "reform and regulation" that the private insurance companies need to keep honest. Just like publicly funded colleges and universities compete for students - and both do so nicely. :wink: There's room for both as long as the private insurance keeps premiums competitive, covers everyone, doesn't deny coverage when you get sick, etc.. and quits paying it's CEO's obscene wages.

You opponents don't want the government in the medical insurance business? If that is true, then why don't I see any signs or hear any shouts or read any letters that say: END MEDICARE, END MEDICAID, END VA BENEFITS? Because those are all government run medical programs (socialism). So to be against the government extending government run health care to all but not against medicare, medicaid and VA benefits smacks of hypocrisy.

You apparently only think the government lies NOW - with a democratic president. I know you don't think our government lied when we had bush & cheney telling us lie after lie about the Iraq war, WMD's, the cost of the war, how our energy policy was developed, who outed Valerie Plame (bush: "I will remove anyone who had a role in this") and on and on..... I believe Obama and the White House, not its detractors and opponents. When any of us opposed bush's we were called unpatriotic & supporters of terrorism. Well, I've seen what the opponents of Obama say and shout and they are the Timothy McVeigh's, the KKK (in nicer "hoods"), the white supremicists and the neo-nazis. They all hated/hate the government. As I've said before, this isn't about healthcare, it isn't about spending. It's about hatred of Obama.

Shame on the de-regulate (wall street), spend (on war) and tax cuts (to the rich only) republicans.

After discussing how insurance companies cherry pick the healthiest individuals and drop the sickest, President Obama, in his speech, said "Insurance executives don't do this because they are bad people." Then yesterday Sean Hattity said "Did you hear that Obama called the insurance executives bad people?" These right wing nut cases have no shame. Lying is like breathing to them. And the kool-aid drinkers just lap it up.

That's a good one!! P.S. And you pictures look great.

Or Wilson/Palin with Cheney for Sec'y of Defense, Eric Cantor as Sec'y of technology, Boehner as chairman of the coppertone committee, Bobby Jindal heading up FEMA, and last but not least Michelle Bachman as CIA director. Late night tv would be worth watching again. :thumbup:

It is the democrats conceding too much power and control to the republicans. I don't give a rat's behind what Olympia Snowe wants or doesn't want. You're right - bush pushed through his $400 billion dollar part D prescription drug plan through congress with nary a blip on the media radar. The pharmaceutical industry was dancing in the streets. It was great for them. The democrats need to just push this thing through with reconcilation if necessary. Just do it. Maybe Rahmbo can twist some arms. But the republicans, in general, are always the problem, too, IMO. They already have "You Lie" tee shirts and Joe Wilson for president bumper stickers ready.

It's intertesting that McCain said that was wrong of Obama to say that he would call out the people who lie about healthcare because during the campaign, McCain said he would "call out" and name those who put pork in spending bills and we "would know them by their names". Apparently pork is bad but lies are okay. Just another typical hypocritical republican. I have said it before, on this board, and in public, etc: If it weren't for hypocrisy, the republicans would have nothing. As an aside to this, a CA state rep named Duvall - a republican, family values, anti-gay voter, had to resign after getting caught speaking into an open mike in the chambers to another rep about having sex and getting into spanking with a young woman who happened to be a lobbyist. He didn't apologize, just said this was a distraction, yadda, yadda, yadda. Barney Franks made a good point. He said the people overwhelmingly voted for democrats in November endorsing their agenda which includes healthcare reform with a public option. To try to take this out to appease republicans would be to ignore this mandate. He said that is not how democracy works. I agree. I didn't work hard to vote these people in only to have th issues I care about watered down with republican obstructionism. The republicans are the ones who now have to be bipartisan since they are in the minority, not the other way around.

It was congressman Joe Wilson from SC who yelled out to the president of the United States "You lie!". He had Obama's speech in advance so his apology about letting his emotions get in the way rings hollow. I am updating this because by his own admission, he was asked to apologize by the republican leadership. So his apology is meaningless. At least Obama accepted the apology which shows what a statesman he is. I though Obama's speech was powerful and persuasive and had just enough "fed up-ness" in it to be great. The republicans have never wanted any reform - health, insurance or any kind of reform. They just want to spread lies and look ahead to 2010 and 2012. It's all about them. The rude, disinterested republicans of last night are the people the tea baggers, birthers, deathers, and all the other irrational people support. I am glad all of america got to see them for what they are.

The downside of term limits is that if you keep it at 2 or even 4 years for congressmen then no one would run or those who would run would run on one issue (want to speculate who those people would be and what issue it would be)? Then they could get in, do their damage, and be gone before having to live with the consequences that we would have to live with. It takes a tremendous amount of money to run for congress and even more for the senate. I doubt many would put forth the effort to be gone in 2 or 4 years but there would be plenty of corporate money to get their candidate in if even for a few years. And we know what they would advocate. Why don't people just vote? It's shameful that so few people exercise their right to vote. They sure don't have any problem with the right to assemble (and shout).

There are term limits in the form of voting a person out of office if the voters believe that person is not doing a good job. When people get voted in year after year then it means the voters are satisfied. If they don't like the job he/she is doing then limit his/her term by voting him/her out. Term limits are the lazy voters way out.

Thanks, BJean. This thread was started because PG was SOOO outraged that Michelle Obama is spending $1.6 million on staff vs $1.4 million by Laura Bush. Yeah, it's about spending and not the person, right. :blushing:

Democratic president Clinton ended his term with a surplus. I would think that those who were concerned with spending would have celebrated that and given him credit (I didn't hear any) and then turn around and blast bush with the same ferocity we see now with Obama - for squandering a surplus and putting us in the greatest debt to date. Again, I didn't see any - and the hypocrisy is staggering. It isn't about the AMOUNT Obama is spending - it is about the man and this proves it.

It's not what I hope. It's what I know. Spending seems like a legitimate issue to gripe about but since there was no similar griping about it when bush did it then the only logical conclusion to come to is that it is about the PERSON and not the spending. The same people who were screaming at the town halls, who hung Obama in effigy, who portrayed him as Hitler, the birthers, the deathers, those who demand to see his college transcripts, those who think he is going to take our guns away, those who think he is going to brainwash our students by telling them to stay in school and study hard, who criticize Obama's vacation or Michelle Obama's wearing shorts, ad infinitum, ad nauseum - THESE PEOPLE ARE ALL ONE AND THE SAME AND THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ALSO MAKE IT ABOUT THE SPENDING , TOO. They are irrational extremists who will never accept anything Obama wants to do. The reason I know it's about the man, Obama, and not about the issues, is that you didn't hear any of these same people complain about the spending or abuses of the bush administration. And there were many.

First of all, good luck in finding someone who wants to put themselves out of a job. And secondly, what is wrong with a lifetime of public service whether it is as an elected representative or teacher or police officer? If someone isn't doing a good job - we do have term limits - it's called VOTING. But as a country, we are pathetically poor at using our priviledge or voting.