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bellydancing last night

Last night was my Wednesday night bellydancing class. It was my second class with this group, and the intermediate class is also the solo class. So I thought I'd be doing a solo next week, but as it turns out, we didn't have a soloist this week, and the instructor wanted to know if I was ready to go.   :girl_hug:   So, I haven't got anything prepaired, all my music is still packed up, and well, I told her to pick a slow veil piece. So there I am, in front of every one and the new music starts, music that I've never heard before, and I dance. It was such a beautiful piece, so sensual and flowing.   When the instructor announced that I'd be the soloist that night, I was greeted with some curiosity, because here I am, my second night, being the featured performer. I started with my back to the audience and started with beautiful arms and the slowly unwound myself from the veil. It was a 5 minute solo, and I rocked their worlds.   At the end of the dance, the soloist sits in front of the troupe, and they critique the dance and dancer. Last week, there were two soloists, and this week just me. The combined critique time from lastweek took about as long as my single critique. I knocked their socks off! One woman asked how long I'd been dancing, and I said, 'I've been taking lessons off and on since I was 18, and now I'm old." At which point they all started laughing.   After the class one of the drummers made a point of telling me how much he liked my dance, and wanted to know if I understood the effect it had, if I had done it on purpose. The instructor laughed, and said "of course she did, she's an experienced dancer!"   It was such a great night last night. Just great. I still feel rather unsure in the regular class, but that comes with being new to the group. Every group does things differently, and I just have to get used to the way the group does things. I sure need work on my zill work!:faint:   The instructor really wants me to dance at the hafla next week. Its an "alternative hafla" where it was described as a any music, any costume with a bellydance flair dancing style. It doesn't have to be strictly bellydancing, and I think it will be a while lot of fun. I'm thinking one of the pieces from Southern Culture, new bra, gold belt and jeans. I think that would be a whole lot of fun! I think a shimmy/fast piece would be nock-out! Espeically since I am a fat gurl. :kiss2:
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

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OHSU, part II

Tomorrow I go see Dr. L at OHSU again. A couple of weeks ago Lynne called me and told me that they want to see me. That I didn’t need to test any more. I guess when they tell you that it’s because they have all the data they need or want.   Part of me is so afraid that he’s calling me down to tell me that there is nothing they can do for me. That I don’t need to test any more because there is nothing wrong, at least nothing wrong that losing weight won’t fix. Oh sure, if only I could lose weight.   My husband said that I shouldn’t worry, that they wouldn’t have us drive 3 hours plus each way, just to tell me that there is nothing more to do. He figures that Dr. L would just dump me over the phone, like any bad relationship.   My son asks me every day when are they going to take this thing out of my head. And then he either punches me in the arm or bitch-slaps me, or attempts to anyway. That’s one way he can tell if I’m High or Low… if I’m High there is no way he’s going to count coup on me, no way. But when I’m Low on the other hand… well, he knows that I’m going to be moving in slow motion, tai chi slow… He’s got a long way to go before he counts enough coups on me, that’s for sure; I’m so far ahead on the coup count he will never catch up.   Last week was really rough for me. I was very, very Low, and my headaches were beyond reasonable. I was temped to go to the ER a couple of time, but it wasn’t until Friday night when I was throwing up that I went. I’d taken two phengren during the day, but by 8:00 pm I was throwing up, or at least I was giving it the old collage try. After the fifth dry heave session I gave up and had Mike drive me to the ER. I didn’t’ want to go, but I couldn’t’ stop heaving, and I couldn’t keep anything down.   We had to wait for over an hour in the waiting room, so many sic people on a Friday night. The doc thought it was another migraine, but this time I didn’t have the weakness, so I could explain exactly what the headache felt like. These headaches are nothing like migraine, but something more. I can only hope that when I finally do have the pit surgery they will go away.   Anyway, it took the nurse three tries before she was able to start the line. But she used lidocane, and besides, my head was in so much pain I don’t know that I would have even noticed the IV going in. Yeah, that bad. The doc wasn’t convinced that I’m not having “atypical migraines” so she wanted to try a combination of phenegren and benidryl. She said that was a sure fire way to knock out a migraine. Well, like I said, it wasn’t a migraine, and no it didn’t work. So she ordered a large dose of the narcotic for me. She said they were done pussy-footing around.   On previous trips to the ER they gave me the usual small amounts, then had to repeat several times before I was beyond the pain. The last time they gave me a double dose, but again, had to keep repeating the dosage of the medication. This time they just game me a large syringe of the good stuff, lowered my bed and put me on oxygen. I have no idea how long I was knocked out, but it worked. I didn’t have a head ache the next morning. You have no idea how wonderful it is to wake up without a headache. If you do know, you have my deepest sympathies.   Before she gave me the injection, we talked about pain management. She sent me home with a prescription for the highest dose percacet they make, a big bottle. She wants me to keep on top of the pain, and to not let it get away from me. So, now I don’t let the headaches get to far into the really bad range before I start managing the pain. No more “riding it out.” No more being the tough girl. She also had the radiology department make a CD of my CT scan from last week. We thought I was having a stroke or a TIA because the right side of my face was melting.   I see the neurologist in a couple of weeks, but tomorrow I go to OHSU to see Dr. L. Back to that worry.         And now for something completely different…   The chinchillas are my husband's pets, but I've been training them to get used to being handled, so they will willingly come to me in their cage, because they know I always have a treat for them. Tonight I decided that I'd start working on them to see going in their balls as a happy thing, so I put treats in them, and let it be their decision to go in the ball, or not. Usually my husband stuffs them in there so he can clean their cages, very high adrenaline stuff...   I was able to coax them into their balls and they had a good roll-around. Now I have these basketball sized balls roaming freely around my house. One of the chinchillas is really adventuresome, while the other got himself stuck between some pillows and boy shoes...Chilly got out of his ball, and it didn't take much effort to catch him. Spud, my son, scared him under my Chase lounge then I had him turn on the light, and I got one of the millet sprays to try to coax in from under it. Instead, he just crawled up between my arms as I was kneeled beside the chase   Chilly let me pick him up without any fight or struggle. He wasn't interested in the millet, he just wanted me. He didn't struggle at all while we walked to the cage, all the while I was telling him what a good boy he was. Then he stretched out on one of the platforms, like they do when they are hot.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

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UFC of 214

Dr. L called last week to tell me that I'd tested really high I went through a whole range of emotions.   214 from 6/21. He wanted to know what was going on with me that day, but I was on vacation in Seaside OR, trying to forget that I had any problems at all. Funny how things come and drag you away from the lovely river in Egypt…   Part of me was very excited, part of me was very distressed. Yes, I know the MRI showed a tumor. Yes I know part of the beauty of the River is that it is a defense mechanism.   So, with the number I am closer to some sort of resolution.   I call my husband and cried after I got off the phone with Dr. L. This makes it more real, it means that it isn't a delusion, that it isn't a fabrication. I still don't know how I feel. It is so hard, for so many reasons. I mean, on the one hand we desperately want answers, answers to why we have all these crazy symptoms. But unfortunately, the answers are as frightening as they come.   I don't want this, but I do. It's terrible, but wonderful sort of. It is validation. It is hope, but a hope that brings with it new fear. That number brings out new questions, new unknowns that I have to deal with. I know that other people have tread the road that lies ahead of me, and I am grateful that they are willing to share what they have seen and felt, willing to share their experiences both good and bad.   This number represents validation. Validation that this is real.   I too think that the testing is nearing an end. I feel that this is starting to speed-up, that it is becoming faster and faster. I know that my cycle is speeding up, and getting stronger at the same time. Like it's some sort of demented oscilloscope. There are some days where I feel like I'm going through a full cycle in a day. But I want this to stop.   I want it to stop, but I am afraid that once this get taken care of, that I'll be fixed in a place where I feel terrible. I am starting to recognize where I am, by how I feel. I have good and bad days, of course, but I'm afraid that I'll get "fixed" in a low state. I suppose we all have this same fear.   Damn, I'm crying at a stupid twilight zone episode. The low has started. I only hope that I don't have the same depths of lows as June. I ended up with my adrenals shutting. Ending up in the ER because it scared my son and he called 911.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

CSS Bound

I met with Dr. L down in OHSU yesterday.   I have enough high UFCs, which DR. L says are the tough ones to get. I just need the high other numbers. I will be going down again for the full round of tests, since my last time there I was on a Low. Instead of going on their schedule, I'll be going on my schedule.   I'm not sure when my next High will hit. I've been on a terrible Low for over two weeks now, or at least I think it's been two weeks, I don't remember going on a good raging High in the last couple of weeks. I might, but my brain isn't working on all cylinders lately.   So, when I start heading High again, I need to call Dr. L that I'm coming down. I'll be doing the full week's work-up, including the 32-hour blood draws (every 4 hours), and a CSS with Dr. D.   "Cavernous sinus sampling (CSS) is highly accurate in distinguishing Cushing's disease from the ectopic adrenocorticotropin syndrome and in predicting intrapituitary tumor location." So basically, the CSS will tell the surgeons where to look for the tumor.   I met Jamie and Mars and Mars' mom for Lunch. It was really great to meet y'all, and you really helped me. I was such a basket case because, well, I was/am Low, and I think anyone would be more than a little emotional just before a big appointment.   But the key is to get High.   Anyway, I just wanted to give y'all a heads up.   Oh, and this morning I got a call from the lab for the local Endo (the one who put me on the Mediterainian diet because I need to lose weight. You remember him...) they did the tests on one of the UFCs WRONG. I have no idea what they did wrong, but there you go. I told the lab tech that I'd be in when I'm High, and not before. She was kind of taken aback, but there is no point in doing a UFC when I'm not High. At least not for that Endo...   Oh, after sleeping today until 11 am, then drinking two giant cups of strong coffee and faling asleep in the middle of drinking one of them... I slept for another couple of hours. Then I went to my husband's company picnic and rode my first ever Jet ski! It was a blast, and I went fast enough that I thought my glasses would fly off! It was so much fun, and I'm gonna do that as soon as I can! Of course, when I got back, the first thing I did was change into my jammies and bed where I napped abit.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

No help for the wicked (2-2-5)

No help for us. We are fat, we are gluttons, we are weak and undeserving of help, sympathy, or adequate medical care. Like Orson Wells said, “Gluttony is not a secret vice.”   Do I believe that? Some days I do in fact believe it, when I’m down, and lately more because of how ill I have been. Mostly it is a load of hog wash. Fat does not equal ugly.   There has long been a weird relationship with food, the body and the Christian church. And of course, we all know the impact that both Protestant and Catholic sects have had on Western Civilization…   Some of the Christian based weight-loss schemes are screaming “fat people don’t go to heaven,” and “use our program based on Leviticus and you will loose weight and be closer to God!” Sorry, I’ve read Leviticus, and I am NOT eating bugs…. (I call them schemes because I think we all here have come to the understanding that “diets” are just schemes…) If you had better self-control, more self-esteem, more will-power, were a better person, loved God more…. You would lose weight and be a better person.   There is no understanding for the overweight from most doctors. Before my husband had his band installed, the cardiologist said “Have you just tried cutting out sweets?” Now, on the face of it, this is good advice, advice we could all use. However, this showed a complete lack of understanding on the part of the doctor. You see, before my husband had his band installed, he weighted 596 pounds with a BMI in the high 80’s. Cutting out sweets would have certainly helped, it wouldn’t have stopped my husband from eating two or three fast-food meals at one sitting, or any of the other overeating behavior some of us know intimately, and other behaviors we are only starting to understand in ourselves and others.   I am currently having difficulty with my asthma: hospitalizations, steroids, greatly reduced lung function, other things as well. What am I told? Well, just lose some weight, we aren’t going to help with this, we are just going to pass judgment on you. Sudden and unexplained weight gain? Well, just don’t eat as much… (never mind that I gained 10 pounds overnight with severe edema…). I have to suspect that part of Delarla’s current adventure with gauze might have been caught earlier if she was thin.   I was told by my doctor that I just need to take up running. Yes that’s right, take up running. Can you imagine a woman with a BMI in the high 40’s running? (Please see the thread about giving one’s self black eyes…)   Being fat or overweight or big boned, or under tall, or metabolically efficient or famine resistant doesn’t make us failures, bad people or jerks. We might be over sexed (skin is the largest sex organ…), but we are not failures, or bad people or jerks. If we are failures or bad people or jerks, it is independent of our weight or size.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

not reading threads...

I'm avoiding threads where people talk about their weight loss, no weight loss challenges for me, and I'm even avoiding the threads where people talk about their first year. Just too painful, and I find I cannot face their successes that so thouroghly elude me. I feel like a heel for not congratulating them, for not cheering their successes, but I just can't face it. It's like the other day when I went shopping, and wondered into the Nordstrom Rack. To say that I was depressed because I still wear the same clothes I did before I was banded is like saying the Oakland Firestorm was a small brush fire. I was absolutely devistated knowing that eing a good little bandster is so futile, so pointless. I'm never going to lose weight, and I'll be fat forever.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

Cushing's Syndrome

1/27/06 I feel like this all make sense, like I've been working with a jigsaw puzzle with out the box, blindfolded. The more I read about this, the more it is just an ah-HAH!   I figure I'll just track my cushing's stuff here, just to keep it in one place. This is what I posted on 1/24: Well, I have a tentative diagnosis. The interist thinks it is very likely that I have cushing's syndrome. So, I go for a new round of tests Friday to find out what kind I have, so i can start a treatment plan.   I'm in a weird place. This sort of makes it real, but yet not real. I don't want to go to work, but well, I have to. I just want to go to bed and sleep, which is what I usually do when depressed. I thought I'd be happy with an answer, but I have a head ache. My DH reminds me that it is only a tentative dignosis, even if it makes sense.   Cushing's Syndrom http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health/endo...s/cushings.htm Cushing's syndrome is a hormonal disorder caused by prolonged exposure of the body's tissues to high levels of the hormone cortisol. Sometimes called "hypercortisolism," it is relatively rare and most commonly affects adults aged 20 to 50. An estimated 10 to 15 of every million people are affected each year.   ... Treatment depends on the specific reason for cortisol excess and may include surgery, radiation, chemotherapy or the use of cortisol-inhibiting drugs. If the cause is long-term use of glucocorticoid hormones to treat another disorder, the doctor will gradually reduce the dosage to the lowest dose adequate for control of that disorder. Once control is established, the daily dose of glucocorticoid hormones may be doubled and given on alternate days to lessen side effects.   *** So, I've had a few days to get used to this. Funny. Right now I'm not scared of this at all. I could have a brain tumor, and I'm not scared. I'm not stressed, I'm not freaked out, well not very freaked out anyway. Weird, weird, weird.   I guess part of it is that now that I have a name, or even might have a name, it isn't scary. It's like in Fantasy, you never give your true name to the bad guys, and once you have the true name of a demon you own it. You control it, and it has no power over you. I sort of feel like I have it's name. This thing that has prevented me from the weightloss success I so desperately crave.   I called my sister last night. Under pain of never speaking to her again (I know, an empty threat) I made her promice that she wouldn't tell our mother. I just really can't deal with my mother having to come up with her own rare-and-potentially-deadly-but-very-treatable disease just so she gets all the attention. I didn't tell her that it was potentially deadly, but that it was rare and treatable. No sence causing her stress where she doesn't need it. She said she couldn't deal with our mom needing another new rare-and-potentially-deadly-but-very-treatable disease either.   Today I had more blood work done because that's what they do, more blood work. I was able to get my appointment moved up a week, so I'll see the internist next week instead of in two weeks. 3 days is easier than 10 days.   ****   I have to admit that I'm afraid that they won't be able to do anything to help me. That I'll be fat forever. That there will be nothing that they can do, and I'll just have to live as a failure.   I try so hard to not read about other people successes. I know that makes me so very shallow. But I can't help it, I feel so miserable when I read about how someone with a lower starting BMI has lost 75 pounds in the time I've gained and lost the same 5 pounds. I feel bad that I can't share in their joy, that I can't celibrate with them,
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

Fears

The other day the lovely Delarly posed a question for a fun Friday thread -- what are you afriad of.   Well, I'm afriad that I have Cushing's but at the same time I'm afraid I don't have Cushing's. I know that doesn't make sense, but that's where I am. If I don't have it, then I have something even more rare and weird, possibly something call something like "metabolic disorder X..." Oh good.   But if I have Cushing's then what kind do I have? I'm afraid I have a brain tumor. I'm afraid I have some tumor on my adrenal. I'm afraid I have lung cancer. Tumor. That word echos in my brain, in my head, in my very soul. I'm not used to being afraid. I picture myself as more the fearless type, but I cried myself to sleep lastnight.   I'm afraid that if I have Cushing's I'll be part of the 20% that isn't cured. I'm afraid of more surgery. I'm afriad that the recovery will be as awefull as it has been desicribed by some of the folks that have recovered. One woman said that she was in constant pain and it was like she had fybromyalgia. Okay, I had to laugh at that, if the worst of her recovery was feeling like she had fybromalgia, then sign me up. You see, I have fybromalgia.   It it worth walking through fire? I guess the real question is more along the lines of why wouldn't it be worth it to become healthy and have no more symptoms.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

Saw the Endo today

Well, today I saw the Endo, but it didn't go quite how I would have liked. Becaue I don't have the strechmarks, and because I work out I don't have the thin arms and legs, he doesn't think I have cushings, but he ordered the 24 hour urine test and three other tests. (my husband has my PDA with that information). I do know they are testing my testosterone because of the increased body hair, the increased facial hair (6 laser hair removal treatments and it is all growing back) and the male patterned baldnes, he thinks I might have something wrong, like a masculinizing tumor, but probably not cushings.   He wasn't interested in my sudden and unexplained weight gains, my fatigue, or my inability to lose weight. I think the man weighs 150 soaking wet. He's going to send me to a doctor that specializes in metabolic issues, although she mostly sees professional atheletes. He kept refering to me being obese (no kidding) and thinks that is why I'm having all the problems. He thinks I should work harder at losing weight. (hello! I had WLS for crying out loud, I work out, and I've managed to lose 15 pounds net since April.   I'm not terribly optimistic, but he didn't dismiss me altogether either.   He did tell me to stop taking the thyroid medication. He looked at my test results from Jan and couldn't believe the other doctor put me on thyroid medication.   This doesn't mean that I don't have Cushing's, it just means that I won't know until after I get the test results back from the lab, and until I finish peeing in a bottle for 24 hours. Oh joy that one...   I just sort of thought that after reading all that I've been able to read about Cushing's that some of the major symptoms that I have would have been looked at, and not brushed aside.   He wasn't interested in my journals, my before and now pix to see the difference and I was disapointed at that. The Cushings's board said to bring all that stuff, and he didn't even want to see any of it.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

Turtle Tribe call to action.

TURTLE POWER!!!! We are slow losers. But we need to demand answers.   I've been thinking about this for the last forever. Or at least it feels like forever. Why are we so different, why doesn't the weight fall off of us like it does our rabbit sisters and brothers?   So, I decided that instead of ranting and raving about not losing weight, crying to the folks that can't help with the underlying problem, I decided that I would start crying to medical doctors, not to therapists.   I went to my PCP and demanded answers. He couldn't help me, other than putting me on thyroid meds, which as it turns out I needed. But he couldn't help beyond that, and I haven't seen much activity scale wise from the increased thyroid function. He said I should find an endocrinologist, and good luck. Not much help there, but I have a sneaking suspicion that he was baffled, well, basically because he told me "I'm baffled."   So I went to another doctor demanded answers. He couldn't do anything, but he did refer me to an internist. She's wonderful; she doesn’t downplay my problems, or my concerns. She doesn't blame me for being fat, she doesn't view all my problems through that if-you-lose-weight-your-problems-will-go-away lense.   And who here hasn't had all their medical problems blamed on their weight? I think that might be why we, as turtles, haven't demanded answers, demanded that they figure out why we can't lose Wight on 1200 calories, or 1000 calories or even less. We think that if we just follow the Bandster rules and guidelines like good banisters, that if we do, the weight will fall off of us. I mean, this works for everyone else, why doesn't it work for us?   Because I think there has to be something else going on with us. Medically speaking, there has to be something that is keeping us from losing weight. If all the literature says that women will lose 1 to 2 pounds a week eating 1200 calories a day, if all the banding literature says that we should expect to lose 1-2 pounds a week, if we follow the rules.   Well, we are following the rules. We are eating within the stated guidelines, or if we are too tight we eat less, we exercise, we drink water, we attend support groups (LBT if nothing else); we do all these things and in most cases see a 1 to 2 pound loss a month.   So, how long do we beat ourselves up? Why shouldn't we get discouraged and stop trying because, just like every other wild hair-brained scheme to lose weight, this one doesn't work either.   Someone said that their doc said that if the thyroid med didn't work that we couldn't blame the medication, which I took to be one more example of blaming the fat person. The implied message that I took away was if it doesn't work, it's your fault, again. Well I say rubbish. It may be that the thyroid medication isn't the answer, but there has to be an answer somewhere.   So, if you are a true turtle, or even a winded wabbit, call your doctor and demand answers. Don't take no for an answer, don't take, "if you just lost weight" for an answer. If your surgeon's office can't help, talk to your PCP. If she can't help, demand a referral. Cry, weep, and threaten a break down if you must, but demand those answers. Don't let them shuffle you off to see a therapist as the only course of treatment either.   I think we owe that much to ourselves. We owe that to ourselves, our families and loved ones. We even owe it to the other turtles who come after us. But mostly, we owe this to ourselves.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

calories in/out debate

I know that lots of people are convinced that weight loss is about calories in/out and I know that that holds true for the majority of people. But I have to wonder about us Cushies. I don't think that it is a matter that we have a really slow metabolism.   But the thing is, it doesn't matter how much I eat or don't eat. The calorie in/out would hold true if I gained massive amounts of weight on 1200-1500, when I couldn't lose on 1200, 1000, 800 or less than 700 calories. (I did gain 10 pounds in a week at 1000 calories, but that was one week.) It is entiely possible that my weight gain/loss has been only water, which is fine on one level because it lessens my edema problems. But not fine for why I had WLS. If my metabolism was truely that slow, I wouldn't metabolize medications as fast as I do, and I would gain constantly.   But as for low calories, I just don't see how other people can function on sub 700 long term. I will give you that it is entirely prorbable that I entered into a deep Low during the month I was too restricted. But I think the lowered calorie intake made the Low worse.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

Week at OHSU.. no CSS

I did NOT have the CSS like I thought I was going to, nor have I met Dr. D. There is a possiblilty that I will meet him tomorrow, but I'm not actually holding my breath. I don't know why I didn't have it after Dr. L said last Tuesday, and now I feel somewhat foolish for saying that Iwas going to have one.   I've had a great visit with a couple of Cushies who were in town! One of the husband is a hoot and a half, and My husband and I had a good time geeking out with him at Lunch. But poor cushie-wife was in a Low while I was Sky High...   I got really good at drawing my blood for the 32 hour draws, and my dear husband was ever so thankful he only had to play messenger service, not actually do the blood draws.   One thing I figured out is to make up all the packets for the tests as soon as I got my orders and supplies. It was VERY anoying trying to dig out everything for the 4 am draw, especailly since I'd made the kits ahead for earlier draws.   Hopefully I won't be doing another 32 hour test, but if I do, I'm prepaired.   The other thing I learned was to bring an insulated no-drip coffee cup. Being from Seattle I only have about 8 or 10 of these things about the house, and it was so much easier for my hubby to just take the cup filled with ice to the ER than to try to worry about an ice bucket and random ice going around those really sharp corners up the hill to OHSU. I think next time I will bring small baggies to put the tubes in when they go inside the insulated coffee cup.   Tuesday I had lunch with a cured Cushie and her cousin, and I could feel myself spinning up faster and faster. I know that I must have appeared to be a speed freak, or a coke-head as fast as I was talking, and as tangental as I was. They are absoluet dolls, and it was helpful for me to know that they had a darn good idea of what was happening.   So, I go up early for my 2:30 appointment at the clinic and I'm suddenly spun WAY out of control. Patty at the front desk wanted me to fill out the "why are you here" paper work, and I couldn't figure out what the heck I was there for. I couldn't think, I couldn't concentrate, and I think I wrote down something like "I'm here for cushing's but my brian won't work anymore, help" So I get back to the room, and my blood pressure is the highest it has ever been in my entire life, I'm crying, and I can't stop moving! I couldn't stop pacing, shaking my hands and head at the same time. I was a freaking out, and not having a good time at all. Chris had me do an imediate draw, but I had to have her help because I was so frenetic. I explained that I've been like this before. Or at least I tried to explain that.   Frenetic is the only word for how I felt for close to three terrible hours.   Chris had me draw my blood at 3, 4 and 5 o'clock. I'd done one at Noon, and then the regularly scheduled one at 8. I can only hope and pray that they cought something. Chris wanted to know if I've ever done that before, and yes, all the gods and goddesses help me, I've been that way before. I finally started to calm down a few minutes to 5, but I was still mighty spun High.   So, Wednesday, I started the Dex. Before I started, my back hurt so bad, I was pretty sure the crash was on it's way. My husband and I decided that we would kill some time by taking a drive up to Mount Hood, but by the time we got to the Village of Government Camp, an hour or so after I took the first dose of Dex, I crashed as hard as I was afraid I was going to. For about 4 hours I was completely out of it, with a few dips back to lucididy. Or what I thought was lucidity. My brain would work, but it was too much effort to say more than a few words. I don't think I've ever sat still that long before, not moving a muscle.   He called Dr. L, but my symptoms were bad enough to need to go to the ER, but that I needed to be watched. Since I'm staying with my friend here, who's mom just happens to be a nurse, Mike make the call to go to their house early. He had to half carry me to the Mom's bed, where I slept for several more hours.   Then Bing! I wake up! I'm alert and my entire body functions just like it is supposed to.   But, being on the Dex, I don't have the BRUTAL headaches that normally accompany such a crash. That was significant, all by it's lonesome. Dr. L told my husband that the dex would make things better. Or make me feel better, anyway. I don't know if there is a difference there.   I was really afraid that I was going to crash as hard as I ended up doing. I knew that as High as I was, my Low would be that low. But the amazing thing is that I didn't have the headaches or the back flank pain I normally get when I crash. I know I said that before, but I wanted to repeat myself because it was so significant.   Since I've been on the Dex, I feel GREAT! I mean really wonderful. There have even been times where the washing-maching noise in my head has completely stopped! It's been amazing to have that noise shut off, even if it's only for a few hours at a time.   I don't know what to expect tomorrow when Chris shoots me full of that stuff to see if I suppress or not. I don't know if it is going to call the head-aches that the Dex has been able to put off. I just don't know.   But one thing I am going to do is ask for a prescription for Dex! It makes me feel.. like a normal person. Like I've been able to strike a wonderful balance between that High and Low. These last couple of days have felt nothing like when I Swing up High from my Low, because I know what those feel like. These last couple of days I have felt like I think Normal is supposed to feel like (except the part where I have to get up at 1 AM to take the dex or the 4 am Potty trips.... I'm pretty sure that Normal doesn't include those   The last time I did the dex test, it didn't seem to have any affect on me. Nothing that I could detect anyway.   But oh mamma! What a difference this time! I feel absolutely great on it. I think partly because I was headed for a land-me-in-the-ER crash, and this time, while I did have an extended period of "extreme weakness" I haven't had the terrible headacke that I normally do.   How terrible to have a normal headache. Sorry, but that's just odd to say that. To be like that.   After the Terrible High I was on Tuesday, this crash should have been just as bad, but since I've been on the Dex, no headache! No brutal back ache!   I wonder if I'll be able to talk them into giving me a precription for it to take home.   It is wonderful to not live on peracets for half the time. Just wonderful.   Anyway, sorry for such a long post.   I prolly won't post again until Saturday. I'm still in Portland at my friend's place. Hopefully I'll be able to leave mid-afternoon. If it gets much later than 3 pm I'll have to stay another night because I cannot see in the dark. When you can't see in the dark, you dont' get to drive in the dark. :faint:
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

not patient, not happy

I found out today that it will be a week or two before I get my results from the first round of Cushing's testing. I can't help but pitch a big hissy fit at the thought of waiting two whole weeks for my test results. Dr. E will be out of town until next Monday, and I'll be back in Idaho by then. It just feels so far away, not only in time but space as well.   I see a new PCP tomorrow, my doc has moved to Everette, and that is just too far to go. I've been with her about 10 years, but I was thinking it was time to move on to a different doctor, since she wasn't really taking me seriously anymore. I mean, I had sleep apenea and serous sleep problems and I basically had to twist her arm to get it taken care of. She wanted to blame most of my issues on "needs therapy" as opposed to really wanting to find the cause.   I am just feeling so sorry for myself lately. Monday I ended up in the ER with another bout of celulitus. And my headache has gotten worse. Probably from all the stress from the Cushing's and decideing to quit school for now.   Pain makes things worse. It just does.   I feel anxious and stressed. I'm out of the lexapro, so I guess I need to get that refilled. Duh.   I miss my pilaties ball. How funny is that?   I started to use a new drawing book, "drawing on the Right side of the brain." it's pretty interesting. A very different way of looking at things, much more an adult program than the Mark Kistler books.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

The Band is taking the easy way.

so many of our bansters, our celibrated Rabbits, it really does seem like magic. It has worked almost like magic for my husband, who most definately is a Rabbit.   Something that has me viewing eating as a chore many days MUST BE MAGIC. Something that has given me back my life MUST BE MAGIC. Something that has given me back my husband MUST BE MAGIC.   In many cases the only difference between magic and technology is understanding the science. Since they don't know exactly why the band work, because they only theorize that because of the way the band is place people feel satiated.   This is in some respect the easy way. I mean, I can't even begin to count the number of people who've lost 50, 75, 100, 150, even 200 pounds with the band. For the first time ever for so many people, they have success. THEY HAVE SUCCESS. Not only have they lost the weight, but they have kept it off. They have success. THEY HAVE SUCCESS.   This is from a thread earlier from this evening. http://lapbandtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14566   So, what's so wrong about taking the easy way? Why does it make it better if it's a struggle than if it is easy to lose weight. Is the weight loss less valuable, less worthy of celibration than if every ounce is a struggle like mine? Need to start an entire new thread.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

A memorial weekend

Well, this weekend I spent with my mother-in-law, while she took care of some things for her best friend who recently died after a protracted illness. Every year, my MIL and her friend went to this charity high-tea out in Kelso, WA. The two charities support families in need, one is a family homless shelter and the other provides new school supplies to kids in need.   The weather was lovely, but since we are having one of the dryest summers on record (the next dry one was in 1960) It's been a lovely summer, but man I miss the rain!   Anyway, we went to the second sitting for the tea, which is the one that they always went too. I know it was hard for my MIL, especially since she brought several tea things to give to the Tea Lady.   We had several things that she needed to do. The next day we were going to go to their church, but we didn't sleep well, so we didn't go. She'd neglected to tell me that that was part of the plan, so I wasn't prepaired. Pagans don't really attend church...my in-laws are Lutherens, but I've never been to a Lutherin service. Oh well. I didn't pack any "church" clothes...   So, we slept in, and went to breakfast at this cute little plance, with ginormous portions. Since I'm unfilled I had heavenly french toast! ok, I had 1/2 piece of french toast and some baccon, but man, have I missed french toast :hungry:! We met the friend's son and his family for breakfast. It was pretty funny, I thought we were going to be eating with Church ladies, but my MIL headed straight for the table with the tough burly biker-looking dude sitting by himself. Massive tattoos on his biceps framed by his black tee-shirt, in the wife-beater style... :laser: Not the usual "type" of person my in-laws associate with! Nothing "proper" about him, but he was the nicest guy. I took pitty on their 11 year-old grandson. The poor kid had to try to entertain himself quietly with a spoon and paper-napkin. I gave him my PDA to play with. I just couldn't sit there and let that kid be miserable... I know how it was with my son... Ah yes, I made a friend right then!   We spent a good chunk of the afternoon going to boxes and bags of the Friends things. Looking through the remains of a long life. The life of a stranger.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

cortisol--cushings ramblings

... cortisol is the determining factor and that cortisol ( a potent steroid)can destroy or affect every organ in your body: skin, hair, heart, muscles, etc etc etc, diabetes, etc. ....and that you want to make sure this steroid does not destroy you ... (Judy from Phg http://cushings.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=15360&hl=)   I'm just so out of sorts, out of time, out of place right now.   I'm leaving school for now anyway. I just cannot handle school, being away from my family, and my health right now all at once. Perhaps it will be different by the fall, perhaps it will not. I just don't know.   And the not knowing is what is so hard on me right now. --sometimes I know that I am the very definition of patience, and other times I know that I'm the most impatient person on the face of the planet. The waiting for results right now is so very hard. I had my first round of tests 11 days ago, the DHEA, LH FSH and serum total testosterone. On the 11th I did the 24 hr urine free cortisol test, the famous pee-ina-jug test.   Part of me thinks that I should be happy that the restults are taking so long, because it means that there isn't a problem with them, that they are all normal.   But the defeatist in me says that the results were way out of normal, and they don't believe the results.   I've been feeling like I have early onset of alzheimers, even though it doesn't run in my family. It is so hard to find the words sometimes. I notice it most when I'm talking, the words elude me, or are just flat out wrong. Sponker told me that he thinks I've always been a little scatter brained, which is probably true, but he said he has noticed that it is getting worse. We were trying to find cheap gas (as opposed to saving the money driving and just going to a near place, but that's what he wanted to do... ) and he kept pointing out to me that my words were wrong. We were driving past Park Place ltd, that car place with the exotic cars, when I pointed out the orange car. But the problem it wasn't orange, it was yellow.   I sure feel like a hypocondriac sometimes. I know I've been one in the past, but usually it comes on after I've had something that they missed. I know I panic after something goes terribly wrong, and I worry about every little symptom. I know that many people with cushings are accused of making it up. Mike is worried that I'm going to end up making myself sick if Im not sick now. "the mind body connection." but I don't think he gets it.   Someone had posted a very interesting thread on the Cushing's board about whether PCOS was a red herring, very interesting, and it's gotten me thinking about it.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

strength

This is what I wrote to someone on my cushing's board. I thought it was important to me.   And as for you not being strong, I don't buy that for a minute. You are stronger than you know. Just by demanding answers you show your strength. Just by coming here and posting, asking questions and helping others, you show your strength. It's not a case of lifting the entire car at once, it is about lifting each little nut and bolt at a time, each little component one step at a time shows your strength. You only see the small pieces you do, and don't recognize the larger picture. You are stronger than you know, but I know how strong you are.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

no home Dex.. freaker/tweaker....

they wouldn't send me home with a precription for the dex, so I'm still in the "test" phase. I can only hope they got the numbers that I need.   Yesterday I had another one of those frantic freaker/tweeker episodes. Heh, I'm sure I'd be arrested for being intoxicated in public! I ended up walking in a circle in my kitchen for over an hour... When my brain started to work again, I taught my spud boy how to make a drink for me. He's not wild about giving me booze, but alcohol and cortisol "eat" each other, so I can only hope that one or more stiff drinks will bring me out of it.   I'm so tired of this. I went to bed lastnight at about 3 am, was wired until about 4:30, up again at 6am and then at 8 am again. I am pretty sure this UFC will be really high, but I don't "need" any more high UFCs....   And I'm rambling again.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

whirl-wind

Well, last week I had my week's work-up at OHSU.   My PIC line closed off, and the tape they used ate the skin off my arm, so I've been fighting an infection there. It really chewed up my arm, but it finally stopped hurting.   I got my famous jugs yesterday, so I'll do the first UFC tomorrow. I'm so wound up tonight, that I'm probably high.... Heh, any where else, in any other context, that would sound bad.   So, I didn't perform at the bellydance party on Friday, like I was supposed to. There will be other solos so I'm not really upset. I just couldn't face the questioning looks with the way my arms ended up being chewed up over the week. It would have just been too hard dealing with the questioning looks. Too hard.   Sunday afternoon I got a call from my sister. Our mother had been having some serious health issues, and the doctor called her on a Sunday, and told her that's she's got pancreatic cancer, it's verified. So now I have to deal with that, and with my rotten brothers.   Sunday night my Spudboy started throwing up with diarea, so I spent all night in the ER with him while they pumped him full of IV bags, pain medications and anti-nausia drugs. I think I got about 15 minutes snooze time in the ER.   Monday, after we got Spudboy home, and socked away in my bed, I think i got about 90 minutes of sleep, I was too wound up. I had a job interview at 3:00 and had to find and print my resume. Had to get the printer out, the good paper, and all that stuff. Road constrction in addition to not being sure where I was actually going for my interview added to the stress, but I arrived in plenty of time. I WOWed him. It was only an informal interview, to see if either one of us wanted to set up the full and formal interview loop. A full loop is an 8 hour loop, and is quite the endurance test. Anyway, I WOWed the guy! He's off for a 10 day inspection of one of the facilities in India, but he wants me to think about where in the organization I think I would fit best, what I would like to do most within the organization, where I want to focus.   Yesterday I had a partial unfill. I "only" had 1.5 cc in my band, but it was too much. I was getting tighter and tighter, and we decided that I should have .25 removed. I have had every meal without pain or PBs or slimes. Heaven! I'm hungry, and I know I'm eating more than I should. Funny, only a Banster would think that an entire chicken breast was too much food? I'm not tracking my meals, which is added stress I don't need right now. NWWLS has a new surgeon who's joined their practice, and he's an experienced neuro-endo-surgeon who's apperently one of the leading docs in the area, both subject and geography. He quickly outlined what the surgery would be in I had to have the adreanals done.   So, tomorrow I get my test resutls from Dr. L. I am excited and scared at the same time. I don't know what time he's going to call me. And I'm sitting here, wound up like a top.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

home again, home again, jiggity jig

Well, I'm all home. We got almost everything in the truck and my car except for my spinning wheel and 4 totes of stuff. My M-I-L drove back with me and we had a very nice time together. I've never really spent much time with her, so this was a chance to bond.   It took what felt like forever to get everything packed and cleaned, but it only took a day. I left the apartment like I like to move into one, with a few hangers, a shower curtian, soap and TP. Once you have to pass Navy housing inspections, well you know how to leave an apartment!   It snowed about 3 inches of wonderful wet big flaked snow Saturday night while we were packing up the truck. We'd gone to dinner in our t-shirts because the night was so relatively warm--high 50's. That's warm when the weather has been for months in the teens as a daytime high... By the time we were done, a big storm had blown in, and I do mean blow! The temp had dropped about 25-30 degrees in an hour, and was snowing hard!   By the time we got up the next morning, late because the motel lost power, all the roads were bare and wet, so we didn't have to worry about that, but it was C-O-L-D with that wind blowing. But DH got off and only had to stop the truck about 8 times to re-secure the load. It was blowing so hard that he almost lost one bin--it was litterally hanging off the end of the truck by a bungie cord! The cheze lounge was almost a lost cause too, but he was able to get it home safe and sound!   It took us about 14 hours to get home. That is a long-ass trip when you are crammed into a vihicle with a big chuck of your worldy possessions... And your MIL whom you hardly know. I did most of the driving, and had to stop when it got dark. I can no longer see in the dark. This started a couple of weeks ago, I can't read road signs until they are 2 seconds close. Not a good thing. So Mary Lynn took over and drove the last 4 hours home.   Heh, I was Miss Cranky-pants when we got home, so I took my meds and went to bed.   So, now comes the long process of unpacking and re-integrating myself and my junk back into my family. I already have a few rules that will change, like "thou shalt put the new roll of TP onto the spinner" and "thou shalt hang up your jackets" and "thou shalt not cover the antique furniture with your motorcycle parts and gear" to implement.   I'm going to take a break from unpacking to drive down to the lab and pick up my lab results.   I want to thank all of you for your love and support. It really means so much to me knowing that you are here for me, weaving a mesh of love and hope around me, prayers and white lights and positive energy combining to create a cocoon of kindness to sustain me for my fight.   Thank you, most sincerely and honestly
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

crazy gardener lady

Highs and Lows are so personal, and some of us find our Highs and Lows merge into one weird feeling. I'm lately finding Highs and Lows crossing over into each other.   Right now I'm on an insane High. Wednesday I crashed hard and ended up in the ER with "profound weakness." Today I was doing yard work like a crazy woman, like a woman posessed. Moved one of my compost bins, sstarted to pressure wash the back of the house but the Husband took over because I was crying because I'm ... possesed. I have no idea why I'm driven to do yard work. I mean DRIVEN to do yard work when I'm on a High. I just put down two big bags of beauty bark in the back-yard, moved the compst, spent an hour killing blackberries, raking ... Mike gets mad because I keep over doing it. Well, mad isn't the right word, concered I think more. I explained to him that I don't know how to not over do. I don't know when to stop. I don't know when to stop because it changes from day to day, hour to hour.   Sorry, I'm rambling again. I'm the amazing motor mouth, chatter chatter chatter.   It's like that credit card commercial, where the guy has dug himself into deep deep debt, and he finally says "somebody please help me."   I haven't figured out why I don't do this in the house. Clean the inside of the house, empty drawers and cupbards and closets. I don't know why I don't turn this energy inside. I don't know why I don't use this energy to pain and refinish furniture or texture walls or retile my bathroom or my kitchen.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

Friday's UFC, a personal best

I've been on a dewsy of a High since about Thursday, I've been testing back-to-back since Friday night. (ok, I didn't test from Midnight lastnight to 10:30 this morning because the lab I use was out of UFC jugs.)   Chris called me this afternoon, which I missed her first two calls. I was in the backyard sleeping under the maples. She called again this evening, and gave me Friday's results ....   Friday I hit 299. The Gods only know what I hit yesterday and today, when I feel like I was much Higher than Friday. I should have those results probably on Thusday... I don't even want to think about what happens on Thusday.   Anyway, Chris said they want me to come back down to OHSU on my next High cycle. So, that should be in two weeks, give or take.   I expect to crash in the next day or so, if my pattern holds true.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

Restless legs

I've had restless legs all my life, so does my mom. I've found that if I eat LOTS of broccoli it seems to help. Unfortunately, not even I can eat 8 servings of broccoli a day/night. I take extra folic acid supplements and that seems to help. My mother read an article in Prevention magazine about 800 years ago and they suggested extra folic acid as a possible treatment/cure. My entire bed gets destroyed when I sleep, On the nights I don't/can't sleep, I'm absolutely astounded that when my husband get up, he can just smooth down the covers on his side of the bed, and of course, mine hasn't been touched. When I sleep alone in a bed, everybody's side gets messed up! I've been taking Mirapex for about 3 years now and it really makes a huge difference in my restless legs. The difference is in getting to sleep, or being miserable until I drop from exhaustion. You see, for me, when it's bad, it isn't a case of wiggly legs, but flailing about like a woman possessed by demons. I'm sure I'd have been burned at the stake! When I'm feeling compelled to audition for the Rockets, I find it's just easier to get up and high step round the house until I can't move another muscle. (Usually only when I run out of the Mirapex.) If I lie on my tummy, I just do flutter kicks, like I'm swimming, then my husband kicks me out of bed. Not really, but I’m sure he wants to kick me out on night like that. Instead, I take pitty on the poor man, and go wiggle and vibrate in the kitchen until I’m ready to drop. Someone suggested heavy blankets to keep one's legs quite... what torture that would be for me! My ex-husband would get fed up with me and my legs and would try to physically restrain me... what torture. As far as I know, RLS and panic attacks have nothing to do with each other. To give you an idea of the difference between the two, consider these the following: RLS is sort of like that guy who sits next to you with his leg wiggly, and just won't stop wiggling it. Bouncing that knee, like there was an imaginary baby being entertained. Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, and wiggle. Panic attacks, on the other hand... AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Impending DOOOOOMMMMMM and AHHHHHHHH!!!! Impending DOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!! Impending DOOOOOMMMMMM!! and AHHHHHHHH!!!!! KIDNAPPERS!!!!!!!! and AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Impending DOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!! and AHHHHHHHH!!!! SPIDERS IN MY SHOE!!!!!!!!! and AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! and AHHHHHHHH!!!! MISSING BABIES!!!!!!!!! and Impending DOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!! and AHHHHHHHH!!!!!! DEATH !!!!!!! and AHHHHHHHH!!!!! Impending DOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!!! and LOOKOUT!!!! CAR CRASH!!!!!!!!!! and AHHHHHHHH!!!!! SPIDERS!!!! Impending DOOOOOMMMMMM!!!! and AHHHHHHHH!!!!! WATCH OUT!!!!!!!! and AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! DOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!! and AHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Impending DOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!! And DANGER!!!! DANGER!!!! DANGER!!!! DANGER!!!! DANGER!!!! DANGER!!!! But that's probably just me.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

Your changing body

I wrote this in response to this thread. http://lapbandtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14862 Kellie had written about being dissatisfied and bored after losing more than 60 pounds. She wants more, but isn't sure what is going on because she's changing so rapidly. ...   Romance is not just for the beginnning. Romance is for sustaining the relationship.   Okay, I can't talk about losing weight, and the changes it brings, but I think I can speak to the base issue.   Everyone gets bored occasionally, even I do. But the key is find something passionate. I'm not just talking sex, but passion for life.   Of course you are in a weird place right now, and of course you wouldn't know what you are doing, where you are going. You, my dear, are entering uncharted territory. You are physically changing dramatically, and with those physical changes come emotional changes. Instead of hating what is happening to you, instead of hating the changes, I think you need to fully embrace the new you. Celebrate because you are going where you wanted to go.   But it's hard to understand the why and how when you are right in the middle of the transformation. I think butterflys don't like it when they first change. They used to be one thing, and everyone around them knew what to expect, they knew what to expect as the catapiller. Becoming a butterfly means that they have a whole new skill set to learn, they must learn to fly, they must learn a new way to eat, they must learn a new way to interact with everyone around.   You have all this new found energy, that you are not used to having. Of course you want to shake things up because you now have enough energy to want something more, something different.   I think your needs go beyond the bedroom. I think right now you need a little apprication, because we all do. I think you need some extra TLC because you are changing so rapidly, and change can be very scary. But I think if you want more romance, you will need to be more romantic in turn. But only you and your husband can decide what is romantic for you. Latenight pic-nics under the stars, love notes, camping trips, dancing... all different.   Perhaps that's it! Dancing! I know that ballroom dancing is making a comeback bigtime, and for good reason. It's great excersize and romantic at the same time. It will give you a way to connect with your husband on an intimate level, that doesn't involve being naked, but rather on a different level that is just as important as sex.   But one thing I think is important here. You need to find something that you are passionate about that has nothing to do with sex. You need to channel this new energy you have into something constructive. I don't know if you have communtiy parks and recreation centers where you can go learn a new hobby like painting or ceramics or woodworking or soemthing like that. You might look at your working situation, maybe transfer to another group or take some classes that will further your career. (my career is one of my passions) Perhaps volunteer with an organization that you feel strongly about, the local animal shelter, homeless shelter, or battered woman's center. Get involved with politics or the local gardening club. Start a catering business where you only do children's parties. Buy a new video game....   Your husband and children cannot fulfill all your needs. I don't believe it is fair for you to ask them too either. You need to find something else you can focus on, something that gives you passion, or fires your smoldering passion __________________
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
 

Flash of insight, Turtle Style

Today I had a bolt of insight. My Cushing's makes it close to impossible for me to lose weight. The band isn't going to help me lose weight. Cutting my calories and increasing my excersize and activies isn't going to help me lose weight. Until I get this thing straightened out with the celulitus and my skin graph, all work on the Cushing's has to go on hold. Boo-hoo for me.   No matter how I try, I cannot make the change in my Firefox browser so it doesn't show signatures, so I have to look at everyone's signatures. All the Turtles have to look at everyone's signatures.   Now, if you are not a Turtle, you cannot understand what this does to us. You cannot understand what it is like when we see your signatures and you have lost twice as much weight, in a third of the time. It is so increadibly discouraging when we see that you have lost 60 pounds to our 30 pounds.   We Turtles understand all too well that you want to celibrate your success. We in fact, celibrate them with you. But watching your tickers makes us feel like we did when we were kids, when we were the last ones picked for sports teams, when we never were asked out on dates, when we were outsiders.   This is just something that hit me today. This is one of the reasons Turtles get discouraged and leave.
vinesqueen

vinesqueen

1
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